George, he hates to admit it but yes he does.

   Jim

Sender: kirvine@sa*.ne*  Date: 8/7/99 7:21 AM

>Jim, does JT know a stroke rig when he sees it?
>
>Jim Cobb wrote:
>> 
>> George, this is JT's call, he was there and did the body recovery, I was
>> not. I only know what JT has told me, and he has not told me the whole
>> story, so I'm not the person to relay the events. By close call I mean
>> with death, not with getting bent. Thanks for the stright poop on Trout,
>> I believe he made the right decision, one I am going to have to make one
>> day.
>> 
>>    Jim
>> 
>> Sender: kirvine@sa*.ne*  Date: 8/6/99 8:37 PM
>> 
>> >Jim, OK - let's hear the story. BTW, what's with the Trout fantasies?
>> >Thinking you got bent is not a "close call" - it's getting bent at best
>> >- who cares. There is nothing to learn from Trout's profile other than
>> >to exercise Option Number One , "Don't Dive". That is the only way to be
>> >sure not to get bent.
>> >
>> >So what happened with these last two Doria deaths?
>> >
>> >Jim Cobb wrote:
>> >>
>> >> George, it is worthwhile to hear the whole story about this incident from
>> >> the eyewitnesses and recovery people before you jump to conclusions on
>> >> this one.
>> >>
>> >> As a diver I am intensely interested in the details on how a diver buys
>> >> the farm, as much so as a pilot is interested when a fellow pilot augers
>> >> in. Even on close calls, as the one Trout apparently had, the details are
>> >> of great interest by those who are not so thick-skulled as to be unable
>> >> to learn from the mistakes of others.
>> >>
>> >> There have been discussions on this list before on deaths or near-misses,
>> >> as how close divers tend to hold their cards. Prying information, the
>> >> "true story", out of divers is like trying to shove a bowling ball up a
>> >> gnats ass.
>> >>
>> >> The reasons for this vary from macho issues, "I don't want to look stupid
>> >> to others" to serious stuff like making sure the survivors get the check
>> >> from the insurance companies.
>> >>
>> >> Diving makes it pretty easy, you just put down "heart attack" in the COD
>> >> field. Pilots have a more difficult problem as it is hard to prove a
>> >> "heart attack" when you are splattered over a few hundred square yards.
>> >> So it usually comes down to "pilot error" or "mechanical failure" and you
>> >> make sure your insurance covers both.
>> >>
>> >> As you well know diving is a very physical sport and certain kinds of
>> >> exertions can result in a heart attack as the final COD, but if you have
>> >> ever done research on death statistics there are always a primary,
>> >> secondary, terciary and some times more COD's.
>> >>
>> >> I too am amazed as to the number of ways a diver can die and yet almost
>> >> all dive of "heart attacks." The question is was the primary, secondary,
>> >> or terciary COD? In this case I think "pilot error" is what caused the
>> >> death, and the story is a sad and chilling one. The moment McGurr made a
>> >> single small decision error which lead to his death is going to stick in
>> >> my mind for a long time.
>> >>
>> >>    Jim
>> >>
>> >> Sender: kirvine@sa*.ne*  Date: 8/5/99 6:12 AM
>> >>
>> >> >Chris - bondage wings, steel stages, bullshit bottle markings, left by
>> >> >buddy, etc. Probably toxed. Hey, aren't you one of the "Dogs"? Big Dogs,
>> >> >that is.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Chris Werner wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why not just present your interpretation of the facts and let us 
decide
>> >for
>> >> >> ourselves. This would be the prudent thing if you were really 
concerned
>> >> >> about educating people on this list.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Chris
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
>> >> >> To: <kirvine@sa*.ne*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 4:53 PM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Where was this guy's buddy?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > At 09:41 AM 6/28/99 -0400, Katherine Irvine wrote:
>> >> >> > How about Christina Young - tell me how it is up there.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Hi George
>> >> >> > Christina is not the one you want to talk to , it is me. She was not
>> >there
>> >> >> > ,I was a customer on that trip and was one of the 2 divers that 
>located
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > body of Charlie Mcgurr.I have never met Christina , but I offered to
>> >tell
>> >> >> > her the facts to relay to you and she suggested I do it myself as I
>> have
>> >> >> no
>> >> >> > ties with the boat, that makes me a more neutral party.If you really
>> >wish
>> >> >> > to know the facts I will tell you them , under these conditions.
>> >> >> > 1) I will only talk to you , so that means all your wanna bees and 
>guys
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> > have in your pocket stay out of this.I will talk to you 
only.Meaning 
>if
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> > can't control your dogs , I can't deliver the mail.
>> >> >> > 2)If you take this fact finding discussion and try to attack as you
>> have
>> >> >> > done in the past , I will not tell you anything.
>> >> >> > 3)To get something you must give something , for every question you
>> ask
>> >me
>> >> >> > , I get to ask you one in return.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If you agree to this then send your first question , if the answers 
I
>> >give
>> >> >> > you are my opinion I will say so , or I will say fact.
>> >> >> > I will answer openly and honestly any question in regards to the 
>death
>> >of
>> >> >> > Charlie, because if it is not the truth it is a lie and you should 
do
>> >the
>> >> >> > same when I ask you the questions about your group.I look forward to
>> >this
>> >> >> > fact finding discussion , but if it can't be done with self control 
I
>> >will
>> >> >> > not be part of it.It is my hope that something can be learn from 
this
>> ,
>> >if
>> >> >> > you do not want to believe the truth there is no need to answer 
me.I 
>do
>> >> >> > think I will be the first to ever offer facts so soon , do not take
>> away
>> >> >> > the chance this list has to learn the facts.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Capt JT
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to 
>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> >
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
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>
>


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