Bill, forget these guys. They are dumber than rocks. The real story here is
very simple. The deaths only attract more of them. It the same concept as
the electric bug zapper, you turn it on and they all come running, no matter
what has happened to the poor sap right in front.
    I have one simple question for the entire so-called 'tech diving'
community:  How many deaths will it take before you believe something is
wrong? Pick a number, How many have to die before you understand? I know
there have been more than 200 of these senseless deaths in the past 2 or 3
decades. A majority of them this decade. Now with more and more thrill
seekers jumping on any boat they can to get their chance at the 'big' dive,
the death rate will only increase. No certification card guaranties you will
come back alive. This sounds more and more like the mountaineering
community, now all we need are some high priced guides taking a bunch of
yuppies diving!!!

Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*>
To: jccalvin <jccalvin@pa*.ne*>; <tgunther@co*.co*>; techdiver
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Doria Count?


> John,
>
> What is the preoccupation with George Irvine? He hasn't killed anybody. He
> is not the problem with diving nor is his behavior in any way the issue
> here.. The issue is the epidemic of death's on the Andrea Doria and
> everywhere else over the last I don't know how many years.
>
> You are obviously a thoughtful guy who has probably confronted life and
> death situations many times throughout your career.  You cannot be
satified
> with what is happening here and you must be able to see the problem. The
> real problem is that where the death's are occuring is where the old
> attitudes of personal preference and "your ok, I'm ok" prevails. The most
> basic concepts in diving have been ignored or forgotten (like dive with a
> buddy) in this new world of much riskier so called "technical diving".
>
> Look and review these accidents and learn something from this. We know
from
> past fatal accidents that diving solo, diving overweighted, diving with
> unmarked gas mixes and narcotic gases, diving with poor health or pfos is
a
> formula for death, yet we this this same mo being repeated over and over
> again.  This very same handprint is all over each and every one of these
> recent deaths.  Don't you see this?
>
> Instead you want to focus on George Irvine as if his actions and words are
> the real problem.  Whenever these accidents happen and George points out
the
> problem we always get the same wave of offended criticism, not about the
> tragedy but about what a mean guy George is.
>
> Do you recall the Rob Palmer tragedy of several years ago when all of the
> righteous and pompous indignation spewed from the mouths of the TDI
> organization because George had the temerity to suggest that Rob was
stupid
> for attempting deep air dives at Hurgada? Come to find out that this is
> exactly what he was doing.
>
> I haven't observed much output from you on this list excepting your
question
> about why not inflate your wings with the drysuit argon. Did George
publicly
> humiliate you for asking this question?  Did we question your "puzzling"
> motives for posing this rather "curious" not very well thought out
question?
>
>
> I would like to hear your opinion about these Doria deaths and any of the
> countless other deaths that we have been witness to over the years.  I
also
> challenge you to get on this list and tell us why discussing George Irvine
> is more important than knowing why another human being has become a
> statistic.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bill Mee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jccalvin <jccalvin@pa*.ne*>
> To: tgunther@co*.co* <tgunther@co*.co*>; techdiver
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Doria Count?
>
>
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: tgunther@co*.co* <tgunther@co*.co*>
> >To: techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 7:44 AM
> >Subject: Re: Doria Count?
> >
> >
> >>George Irvine:
> >>
> >>The reputation of the WKPP in the industry is well established.   Your
> >>professional  record is beyond dispute.    But like others, I find
myself
> >>wondering why such ingenue behaviour is necessary when recounting
> >unfortunate
> >>deaths within the community?    Is it really necessary to scurry around
> >like a
> >>little June Beetle that takes advantage of all the carnage around
itself?
> >Is
> >>such insolent chest-beating truly important in situations like this.....
> >
> >Greetings:
> >
> >As a student of technical diving (two years of training and experience
AND
> >no intent to dive the Doria soon) I am compelled to support Mr. Gunther's
> >posting.  Reading Mr. Irvine's posts and getting past the ODD
presentation
> >is a significant challenge.  I always read the posts carefully and having
> >discarded the extraneous chatter, carefully evaluate (and usually follow)
> >the diving advise.
> >
> >I must say I am rather puzzled by Mr. Irvine's presentation style.  I
spent
> >two tours in Vietnam working with Special Forces and a few seals on
> >intelligence operations and eight years as a police officer.  I have
never
> >encountered anyone who was really good at a dangerous and intellectually
> >demanding activity (as Mr. Irvine obviously is) who communicates with his
> >particular approach.  They were almost always low-key and friendly
> (assuming
> >you were not one of there targets :>).  Generally people who talk like
this
> >would really like to be accepted as one of the group but are clearly not
> >qualified.  As Mr. Irvine's qualifications are not questionable the
puzzle
> >remains.
> >
> >regards,
> >
> >John.
> >
> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
>
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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>

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