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George, This is something that infuriates me. I am reading the following article and I will quote it directly. "He was a fast learner. He was really comfortable in the water. When things went wrong he would deal with them a lot better than more experienced divers." This diver 'who plunged into the sport of diving with great passion only two years ago, but had quickly gained the skills to tackle the worlds most feared dive.' Recreational divers with two years experience have no business on the Doria. Just because you have hiked in a few national parks doesn't mean that you are ready to climb Everest. I have seen this "two years of diving experience" confidence hurt and kill many people over the years. It takes many years of diving experience, physical conditioning, and preparation to do a dive like the Doria. People think they can shortcut all that and make the dive without all the above mentioned. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think we have seen that recently with all the fatalities. I have taught diving for over ten years at all levels with over 1900 dives under my belt and I have no business on the Doria. I need a lot more training and experience in deeper water and around complex wrecks before I can tackle a dive like the Doria. Unlike some, I don't think that taking a weekend training class in Trimix will make me ready to dive the Doria. I think that when you are peeling the plastic wrap off your brand new Trimix certification card you need to remember that. We can constantly point fingers at training agencies, dive boats, captains, trainers, etc but you need to look in the mirror to determine who is ultimately responsible. If you think that two years is enough experience to go out and do these types of dives you are kidding yourself. Only those with the firmest commitment to diving safety should be doing them. I think you need to step back and honestly appraise your ability. Let's face it. It is a technicially difficult and dangerous wreck dive. You need to ask yourself if you are ready for it. It is not the responsiblity of a training agency, divemaster, or boat captain to do it for you. Ask the doctor, who was a recreational climber with limited experience, that lost his face to frostbite on Everest in '94 if he thinks he had enough experience. I think you will get the answer I am trying to convey. Todd --- kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > ATTACHMENT part TEXT message/rfc822 > From: "Bill Mee" <wwm@sa*.ne*> > To: <kirvine@sa*.ne*>, > <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Subject: Re: Where was this guy's buddy? > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:45:45 -0400 > > Like the recent Tony Smith and the Seeker's Doria > fatalities of last year he > was no doubt diving without a buddy. This apparently > is SOP on boats like > the Seeker. These people do not or can not learn. > Besides all of the other > egregious foolishness that goes on it is well known > that solo diving or > diving solo with your buddy violates every possible > tenet of common sense. > The latter behavior will get you axed from the WKPP > faster than anything > else once you have graduated from the parking lot. > > These ignorant behaviors are apparently still widely > practiced and people > are proud of them. If you don't believe me check > out Christina Young's web > site and just ask yourself where on earth have these > people been over the > last several years. Look at the ridiculous gear > configurations which range > from the tank boots, steel stage bottles slung from > both sides to the deco > bottle strapped in between the back gas. The funny > thing is that these > people are so impressed with their own foolishness > that they even consider > publishing it on a website. > > The Seeker represents the absolute worst example of > self indulgent personal > preference. In my opinion and that shared by > numerous others, most of these > multiple fataliities were avoidable by following a > handful of simple rules. > The first and most basic, which is taught in every > introductory dive course > is "dive with a buddy", dive properly marked bottles > and don't dive narcotic > gas mixes. The horrifying gear convolutions and > other bozonity only > contributes to the CFs when they inevitably occur. > > Captain Dan Crowell should be real proud of himself > now that he has finally > called massive public attention to the worst > examples of incompetence in > technical diving. It is totally gut wrenching to > observe the families of the > deceased suggesting that the victims died doing > something that made them > happy. This is complete bs and they would think > quite differently if they > knew that their relatives died as victims of > incompetence and negligence and > by all rights should still be alive today. > > These people think they are real smart and they > continue to hide behind > behind their cleverly worded releases. The clock is > running out on them > though. Most of these practices border on criminal > negligence and sooner or > later a civil jury will agree with this viewpoint or > a Coast Guard > Administrative court will cure the problem. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Katherine Irvine <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 5:44 PM > Subject: Where was this guy's buddy? > > > >http://www.newsday.com/news/nsecthu.htm > > > > Somebdoy try to tell me this is not a > bullshit operation. How > >about Christina Young - tell me how it is up there. > Tell me how it > >should be done. You people are giving strokes a bad > name. > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > By Joe Haberstroh, Zachary R. Dowdy and Andrew Metz > Staff Writers > A FORMER Vietnam War Green Beret intent on > retrieving treasures from the > sunken passenger liner Andrea Doria died yesterday > while exploring the wreck > 90 miles off Long Island, the fifth diver to be > killed at the site in 13 > months and the second in the last week. > > Like the other four men, Charles McGurr of Brick, > N.J., 52, had taken the > Montauk-based charter boat Seeker to the wreck, > where last year he had found > a prized plate bearing the name of the shipping line > ''Italia.'' > > ''He was so proud of it because it said 'Italia' on > the plate,'' said > McGurr's mother, Blanche McGurr, of Manchester, N.J. > ''We are shocked, but I > feel he went the way he wanted to go. He knew the > dangers. How many of us > have this choice?'' > > But McGurr's death has shaken the diving community. > ''What it means is, we > have to change something,'' said Tom Doherty, owner > of Treasure Cove Water > Sports in Westfield, N.J. ''Something has to give. > This is impossible. This > is five tragedies too many.'' > > McGurr, an auto body mechanic and father of two > grown children, was the 12th > fatality at the Andrea Doria since 1981. He died a > week after Christopher > Murley, 44, of Cincinnati, apparently suffered a > heart attack July 21 while > swimming along a line leading from the Seeker to the > wreck. > > > Newsday > This was the second summer McGurr had served as a > crew member on the Seeker. > He turned 52 on Tuesday, and the trip was a birthday > present to himself, his > wife, Kathleen, said last night. Before setting off > for Montauk Friday, > McGurr and the owner of the Seeker stopped at the > restaurant the couple ran > in South Belmar, N.J. > > ''They came to the restraurant and got ice and we > said goodbye and that was > it,'' she said. > > The Seeker was headed last night to the Star Island > Yacht Club, where the > boat is based each summer. The Suffolk County > medical examiner's office was > prepared to accept McGurr's body for autopsy. > > Robert Wass, a Smithtown diving-equipment expert, > said he had been contacted > by authorities and asked to examine McGurr's gear. > > Authorities had few details of the accident. The > Coast Guard said McGurr, > who was working as a crew member aboard the dive > boat, was last seen at a > depth of 180 feet, where the Doria lies on its > starboard side on the bottom > of the ocean. > > The Seeker crew reported McGurr missing at 11 a.m., > and the boat's skipper, > Daniel Crowell, dived to the wreck to locate McGurr. > The lifeless body was > retrieved by two Seeker divers at about 1:45 p.m. > > No charter boat takes more divers to the Andrea > Doria than the Seeker, and > people who know Crowell said they were stunned by > the boat's series of > accidents. > > ''This is going to upset Danny pretty good,'' said > John Chatterdon, a friend > of Crowell's who has made more than 130 dives on the > Andrea Doria. ''Last > year was a real bad year. You just don't expect that > to be followed by > another very bad year.'' > > The 697-foot Andrea Doria, which sank on July 25, > 1956, after a collision > with another liner, is often referred to as the > ''Mt. Everest'' of scuba > diving. Only the most highly qualified divers > attempt to explore the wreck, > a darkened maze of muck-filled passageways turned on > their sides. The site > is also subject to strong ocean currents and > summertime water temperatures > in the 40s. > > Like the three divers who died last summer, McGurr > apparently === message truncated === _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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