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I thought the key to Hogarthian diving was survivability. Is there anyone out there who is one hundred percent sure that in an emergency they can honestly say they would reach the valves EVERY SINGLE TIME? All it takes is one time to fail and, basically you die. I hear loads of rhetoric but not a lot of justification to your arguments. Have I just dared challenge the High Lords of the WKPP or is there a more practical reason why this method is flawed? I'm assuming most of the hostility is coming from the US. I don't dive open water except for training purposes, so I'm speaking from the standpoint of cave diving. European cave diving is a million miles from the springs of Florida, so I have a slightly different view. After three or four hours in flowing, zero vis cave water, barely above freezing, I cannot say for sure that I could shut down my valves safely. At least I'm being honest with myself, not shrouding myself in bravado. I apologise for being imperfect but I'd challenge a veteran Yucatan or N. Florida cave diver to get more than 100ft into a UK sump. That, I think, is the key. We are flawed beings, we do not always succeed, so why fool ourselves into thinking that we are invincible. Accept that sometimes things go wrong, sometimes we get more tired than we realise, sometimes we get more stressed than we expected. I can reach my valves just about every time I try it, but I cannot convince myself that I will do it when I need to. The method I use is developed from that used by the British Royal Navy, who have one of the best safety records amongst the military. The vast majority of European cave divers still favour independant tanks and we haven't had a fraction of the deaths which have occurred in the US and Mexico. The British CDG is the oldest cave diving organisation in the world, they have been using independant tanks since they started using OC (the CDG were using rebreathers before the first scuba sets were even imported into the USA) and they have produced the best, safest and most prolific cave divers in its history. I think it is telling that until the WKPP started using Halcyons that the longest cave dives in the world were done in Europe by European divers using independant rigs. I haven't noticed too many US or orthodox DIR divers having much success over here. Again, maybe I've missed something. "you've managed to...screw yourself and your buddies..." How exactly? If I cannot reach my valves then I have no gas left and my buddies and I are totally fucked. Heresy, blasphemy, I've got my long hose (which I breathe) on the left post. If the valves contact the roof going through a restriction then which knob could get turned off accidentally? The left one, which I'm breathing, which I notice, which I turn back on. Suppose I'm breathing off the right, my partner needs gas, grabs my reg, I switch over and get no gas. Or worse, he grabs the short hose and he gets no air. BTW. I have a very comfortable, crushed neoprene drysuit which gives me shit loads of flexibility and I can reach my manifold every time. But all it takes is once not to. What kind of imbecile would put the contents gauge on a different regulator from the one being breathed in a manifolded rig. Once more, mistakes get made. For example, a manifolded diver jumps in the water, swims into a cave then realises the needle on his gauge hasn't moved in the last fifteen minutes because he forgot to check that the isolator was open. He could go on forever, calmly thinking he had the lowest RMV on the planet. It's shear stupidity, but it happens. If the gauge is on the reg he is breathing from then all that will happen is that he will hit thirds in half the time he would expect. I'm not knocking the originators of the Hogarthian rig, I'm knocking the disciples and WKPP wannabees who blindly do without thinking and cannot tolerate being questioned. Everyone who can achieve perfect performance every time gets my respect, I am simply a humble, flawed diver with a deep-seated fear of not being able to breathe. In later years I'll pray for forgiveness for my heresy of daring to question Saint George but for now my blasphemic gear and I shall retire to our cave. However you dive, do it safely. Regards. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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