Let's not forget 80% O2, that's always a favorite....  :-)

Art.


		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Jesse Armantrout
[mailto:armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*]
		Sent:	Wednesday, March 24, 1999 1:45 PM
		To:	Jim Cobb; Miller, Barry; Michel Therrien;
Pagefix@ao*.co*
		Cc:	cavers; Tech Diver
		Subject:	Re: Pictures

		Sorry, Jim, gotta call bullshit here.  I could care less
what language
		anybody uses.  If the stuff works, I buy it.  But then,
I like Eddie Murphy
		and George Carlin, too.

		Barry lights work.  And Barry is a great guy.  I am told
that AUL lights
		now work fairly well since they copied Barry's lights.
The web page,
		however is in the wrong.

		End of story.  Let's go back to talking about hose
routing or upside down
		tanks or some other stupidity.

		Trout

		----------
		> From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
		> To: Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
		<m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
		> Cc: cavers <cavers@ca*.co*>; Tech Diver
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
		> Subject: Re: Pictures
		> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 11:46 AM
		> 
		> Hey, Barry, you were doing great until that last
sentence. I don't buy 
		> this "holier than though" stuff of yours, either.
		> 
		> You know, generally speaking, it never ceases to amaze
me how 
		> manufacturers or representatives come on to these
public forums and 
		> proceed to directly or indirectly piss off or alienate
the very people 
		> upon whom their income depends.
		> 
		> Like it your not you are one of these manufacturers
and getting on these 
		> lists with long profanity laced tirades is simply not
a bright thing to 
		> do. For every person who supports you  there are ten
or a hundred who 
		> will take their business elsewhere.
		> 
		> And a common saying in Marketing is "don't get mad,
get even" my boy, if 
		> you get my drift (wink, wink, nod, nod).
		> 
		>    Jim
		> 
		> Sender: Miller, Barry  Date: 3/24/99 12:13 PM
		> 
		> >Mr. Cobb,
		> >   You could not be further from the truth. As a
matter of fact, your
		view
		> >seems to be in the minority. The day that you do
something then have
		> >someone steal it will show a change of attitude, that
is the day you do
		> >something. It is very difficult to say anything
without you and your
		> >friends throwing in the fact that I build equipment.
I am not sure where
		> >you get that I am doing the marketing, maybe you need
to go look at this
		> >web page and tell us again who is doing the
marketing. I am speaking as
		an
		> >individual trying to protect what is mine, while
these "people" are
		using
		> >my work to sell and promote their product. If one day
I decide to use
		any
		> >of my work to promote anything I do and you don't
like it, then you can
		> >also fuckoff.
		> >
		> >Barry
		> >
		> >
		> >At 10:59 AM 3/24/99 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote:
		> >>Oh for Christs Sake, lets get real here. The reason
that the ratster
		has 
		> >>his panties in a wad is the fact that this web site
promotes AUL
		products 
		> >>and not his gear. All this huff-and-puffery is just
a smokescreen and a

		> >>bunch of baby-like boo-hooing that, frankly, does
not reflect well on 
		> >>Miller or his products.
		> >>
		> >>You are in the real world now, Miller, you need to
start acting like a 
		> >>business professional and not a redneck hillbilly
pickemuptruck cowboy.

		> >>You need to take your marketing medicine like a man
and quit belaboring

		> >>the list with your whining.
		> >>
		> >>   Jim
		> >>
		> >>Sender: Michel Therrien  Date: 3/24/99 9:29 AM
		> >>
		> >>>Dear Pagefix, (who is Pagefix?)
		> >>>
		> >>>I am not Barry's friend, nor a WKPP diver or
affiliate.  I will admit
		that
		> >>>I don't always like the attitude of some WKPP
leaders.
		> >>>
		> >>>This said, the reason why I wrote the message is
not to defend
		Barry... it
		> >>>is a question of principle.  I have no tolerance
for pirating,
		steeling and
		> >>>unethical behavior such as taking someones material
without his
		permission.
		> >>> I propably have this attitude because I worked in
the software
		industry (I
		> >>>don't know).  
		> >>>
		> >>>Is there a reason why you stay anonymous?  This is
another thing I
		have
		> >>>problem with... I guess.
		> >>>
		> >>>Please note that the issue for me is not legal...
it is ethical. While
		the
		> >>>law may allow to copy someone's material for
educative purposes, I
		don't
		> >>>think this is honest.
		> >>>
		> >>>Is it so hard to ask permission to use material
PRIOR to using it? I
		was
		> >>>flattered that the NSS-CDS recently asked me to use
some of my
		pictures.
		> >>>On the other hand, I would have been really pissed
off if I saw my
		pictures
		> >>>without any prior discussion about their use.
		> >>>
		> >>>Michel Therrien
		> >>>Montreal, Canada
		> >>>
		> >>>PS: I know it is unethical to copy private messages
in public forums,
		but I
		> >>>started public and I think your answer may help the
rest of the crowd
		to
		> >>>understand your position.  
		> >>>
		> >>>
		> >>>At 09:04 AM 3/24/99 EST, you wrote:
		> >>>>Michel the video was given to one of our sponsors
and we took some
		clips of
		> >>>>it.  The law states that you can us this type of
material as long as
		you
		> >are
		> >>>>not selling it to make a profit.  We e-mailed
Barry with an apology
		for the
		> >>>>mistake and fixed the problem.  He didn't post
that part on you
		cavers list
		> >>>>just the other parts that he wanted you to see.
The fact of the
		matter
		> >is we
		> >>>>would have agreed with what he asked but after the
flaming he gave us
		we
		> >took
		> >>>>a defensive posture.  What is wrong with him has
he no respect for
		> >>>anything or
		> >>>>one?  I am sorry if you want to punish AUL for
Barry Millers Flaming
		and
		> >Lies
		> >>>>to us.  But if you feel like the only way to help
Barry is kicking
		another
		> >>>>company so be it.
		> >>>>Most people don't use the language that Barry has
used to a dog but
		if he
		> >>>>wants to talk like that it a free country and God
bless him.
		> >>>>Please except our apologies for any
misunderstanding and thanks for
		you
		> >>>input.
		> >>>>pagefix@ao*
		> >>>>
		> >>>>
		> >>>--
		> >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
		`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
		> >>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
		`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
		> >>>
		> >>
		> >>
		> >>
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		> >>
		> >>
		> >>
		> >
		> >
		> 
		> 
		>
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