Let me rephrase that...

AUL lights incorporated features that Barry Miller lights were using a few
weeks after Barry began selling lights.  Better?

The fact is, the only reason Barry began selling lights, something I am
sure he regrets, is because nobody was making a light the way many members
of the WKPP wanted their lights made which was, by the way, the way Gavin
made them.  Now, I believe all the lights being used by WKPP gas divers are
either Gavin lights or Miller lights with the exception of George's one
NiCad.  This too is contrary to what the web page would have you believe. 

Trout

----------
> From: William Allen <william@ca*.co*>
> To: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; Jim Cobb
<cobber@ci*.co*>; Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
<m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> Cc: cavers <cavers@ca*.co*>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Subject: Re: Pictures
> Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 1:41 PM
> 
> Barry's lights were copied by AUL what's this a time warp? I believe all
> these lights are basically copies of another person's light. I believe
> barrys lights came out quite a bit after AUL's although he did make some
> changes to them. Before anybody has stroke AUL did not design them
either.
> English engineering I think was the first.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>; Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>;
> Michel Therrien <m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> <Pagefix@ao*.co*>
> Cc: cavers <cavers@ca*.co*>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 2:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Pictures
> 
> 
> >Sorry, Jim, gotta call bullshit here.  I could care less what language
> >anybody uses.  If the stuff works, I buy it.  But then, I like Eddie
Murphy
> >and George Carlin, too.
> >
> >Barry lights work.  And Barry is a great guy.  I am told that AUL lights
> >now work fairly well since they copied Barry's lights.  The web page,
> >however is in the wrong.
> >
> >End of story.  Let's go back to talking about hose routing or upside
down
> >tanks or some other stupidity.
> >
> >Trout
> >
> >----------
> >> From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >> To: Miller, Barry <rat@ne*.co*>; Michel Therrien
> ><m.therrien@ne*.qc*.ca*>; Pagefix@ao*.co*
> >> Cc: cavers <cavers@ca*.co*>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Pictures
> >> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 11:46 AM
> >>
> >> Hey, Barry, you were doing great until that last sentence. I don't buy
> >> this "holier than though" stuff of yours, either.
> >>
> >> You know, generally speaking, it never ceases to amaze me how
> >> manufacturers or representatives come on to these public forums and
> >> proceed to directly or indirectly piss off or alienate the very people
> >> upon whom their income depends.
> >>
> >> Like it your not you are one of these manufacturers and getting on
these
> >> lists with long profanity laced tirades is simply not a bright thing
to
> >> do. For every person who supports you  there are ten or a hundred who
> >> will take their business elsewhere.
> >>
> >> And a common saying in Marketing is "don't get mad, get even" my boy,
if
> >> you get my drift (wink, wink, nod, nod).
> >>
> >>    Jim
> >>
> >> Sender: Miller, Barry  Date: 3/24/99 12:13 PM
> >>
> >> >Mr. Cobb,
> >> >   You could not be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, your
> >view
> >> >seems to be in the minority. The day that you do something then have
> >> >someone steal it will show a change of attitude, that is the day you
do
> >> >something. It is very difficult to say anything without you and your
> >> >friends throwing in the fact that I build equipment. I am not sure
where
> >> >you get that I am doing the marketing, maybe you need to go look at
this
> >> >web page and tell us again who is doing the marketing. I am speaking
as
> >an
> >> >individual trying to protect what is mine, while these "people" are
> >using
> >> >my work to sell and promote their product. If one day I decide to use
> >any
> >> >of my work to promote anything I do and you don't like it, then you
can
> >> >also fuckoff.
> >> >
> >> >Barry
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >At 10:59 AM 3/24/99 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote:
> >> >>Oh for Christs Sake, lets get real here. The reason that the ratster
> >has
> >> >>his panties in a wad is the fact that this web site promotes AUL
> >products
> >> >>and not his gear. All this huff-and-puffery is just a smokescreen
and a
> >
> >> >>bunch of baby-like boo-hooing that, frankly, does not reflect well
on
> >> >>Miller or his products.
> >> >>
> >> >>You are in the real world now, Miller, you need to start acting like
a
> >> >>business professional and not a redneck hillbilly pickemuptruck
cowboy.
> >
> >> >>You need to take your marketing medicine like a man and quit
belaboring
> >
> >> >>the list with your whining.
> >> >>
> >> >>   Jim
> >> >>
> >> >>Sender: Michel Therrien  Date: 3/24/99 9:29 AM
> >> >>
> >> >>>Dear Pagefix, (who is Pagefix?)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>I am not Barry's friend, nor a WKPP diver or affiliate.  I will
admit
> >that
> >> >>>I don't always like the attitude of some WKPP leaders.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>This said, the reason why I wrote the message is not to defend
> >Barry... it
> >> >>>is a question of principle.  I have no tolerance for pirating,
> >steeling and
> >> >>>unethical behavior such as taking someones material without his
> >permission.
> >> >>> I propably have this attitude because I worked in the software
> >industry (I
> >> >>>don't know).
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Is there a reason why you stay anonymous?  This is another thing I
> >have
> >> >>>problem with... I guess.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Please note that the issue for me is not legal... it is ethical.
While
> >the
> >> >>>law may allow to copy someone's material for educative purposes, I
> >don't
> >> >>>think this is honest.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Is it so hard to ask permission to use material PRIOR to using it?
I
> >was
> >> >>>flattered that the NSS-CDS recently asked me to use some of my
> >pictures.
> >> >>>On the other hand, I would have been really pissed off if I saw my
> >pictures
> >> >>>without any prior discussion about their use.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Michel Therrien
> >> >>>Montreal, Canada
> >> >>>
> >> >>>PS: I know it is unethical to copy private messages in public
forums,
> >but I
> >> >>>started public and I think your answer may help the rest of the
crowd
> >to
> >> >>>understand your position.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>At 09:04 AM 3/24/99 EST, you wrote:
> >> >>>>Michel the video was given to one of our sponsors and we took some
> >clips of
> >> >>>>it.  The law states that you can us this type of material as long
as
> >you
> >> >are
> >> >>>>not selling it to make a profit.  We e-mailed Barry with an
apology
> >for the
> >> >>>>mistake and fixed the problem.  He didn't post that part on you
> >cavers list
> >> >>>>just the other parts that he wanted you to see.  The fact of the
> >matter
> >> >is we
> >> >>>>would have agreed with what he asked but after the flaming he gave
us
> >we
> >> >took
> >> >>>>a defensive posture.  What is wrong with him has he no respect for
> >> >>>anything or
> >> >>>>one?  I am sorry if you want to punish AUL for Barry Millers
Flaming
> >and
> >> >Lies
> >> >>>>to us.  But if you feel like the only way to help Barry is kicking
> >another
> >> >>>>company so be it.
> >> >>>>Most people don't use the language that Barry has used to a dog
but
> >if he
> >> >>>>wants to talk like that it a free country and God bless him.
> >> >>>>Please except our apologies for any misunderstanding and thanks
for
> >you
> >> >>>input.
> >> >>>>pagefix@ao*
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>--
> >> >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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