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David, Thanks for the comments. Once I notched out the V-weight, the gross weighting was correct, but the trim problem was not a head down issue. It was side to side. I found that long deep breaths cause a rocking (yes, I know why) that I was able to correct by putting the same amount of weight in a different place (the weight pockets). Lately the visibility here has been great... really great although it just rained so that mey be done for a while. The light has simply not been needed. When the light is needed, the weights are not needed. Very simple and very flexible. Another use for the weight pockets is when I am diving with a single (usually in warm water, rec photography) and the light is needed. I use the same light, so weight is needed on the opposite side to conteract the light weight (no argon). The weighting is much more sensitive with the single. I brought up this idea of the pockets as I use the same BC for all of my diving in many different conditions. Everyone seems locked in to a configuration without considering adding flexiblity. I broke everyones concept of DIR configuration (but kept the DIR philosophy) when I took into account ALL of the different conditions I use the gear for. The whole concept behind DIR is ever evolving.... Steve -----Original Message----- From: David Shimell (shimell) [mailto:shimell@se*.co*] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 12:46 AM To: Steve Hogan; kevin@nw*.co* Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: Weight belts and backplates Steve Let me join the throng and add my HO after all the nonsense so far. Firstly, the argon bottle vs. V-weight issue. I moulded my V-Weights slightly narrower than the gap between my doubles. This allows argon bottle webbing to be in place and a V-weight to be used. It also allows me to fit inner tubing bands around my doubles and I use this to carry my pre-packed lift bags on the side of my cylinder, tucked close into my body and out of drag and snag with my wing wrapped around them and the cylinder. However, you solved this by cutting out a notch in your V-weight, so this would not solve the problem. However, do not discard your V-weight yet... Secondly, it seems only sense to take a primary light if you think you may need it, and not, if your are certain that you do not need it. The beauty of DIR/Hogarthian is that one can dive it in 99% if circumstances and in all circumstances that I dive. I did a few recreational dives recently and still dived with Hogarthian rig set for recreational use. This meant no canister light for the 20+ m vis dives to 20 m. This is only common sense and DIR principles that you take only what you need, so no issue with what you are doing here. Thirdly, if you are in circumstances where you light is not required you say you need your 6 lb. of weight. There are a few options for you to consider, which you may have already. Since you are referring to trim and putting the weight on your belt, and tried cutting a notch in your V-weight, I assume that the trim your are experiencing is a head down attitude. This happened to me when I first set up my rig. Without messing around with pockets and weights, first ensure that your cylinder bands are as high on the cylinders as possible so as to push your centre of gravity towards your feet. If that does not solve it, lengthen your harness straps, and tighten your crotch strap. I found this fixed my problem. The harness although slightly "loose" did not slop around and also made getting in and out of it easier. Also, if you are carrying stages, check that the position of the upper D-ring is not too high. This will have minimal effect unless you are carrying steel stages which I assume you are not as you are reported as being very DIR. In one configuration, I found that I need 5 Kg of weight. I can only get 4 Kg as a V-weight, so I made a bolt-together weight. That is, two V-weights that bolt together so as to keep the centre of gravity low. The bolt is permanently moulded into the rear-most weight and completely hidden at the rear so there is no snag potential on this. The inner V-weight has a hole to take the rear bolt and a recess for the nut so that it all fits nicely behind the backplate. Also, the rear weight is a precise fit at the rear since again to avoid snags. This could be an alternative V-weight solution for you to consider. Maybe some combination of a few of these ideas may solve your trim issue. They did for me as I felt that to carry a weight pouch was intrinsically wrong as it must have been with you, hence your email. David Shimell Project Manager, Sequent Computer Systems Ltd., Sandton, South Africa. Email: shimell@se*.co* <mailto:shimell@se*.co*> -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hogan [SMTP:Steve.Hogan@tr*.co*] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:13 PM To: kevin@nw*.co*; Steve Hogan Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: Weight belts and backplates Kevin, I found the V-weight interferred with the argon bottle. A solution was to notch out where the argon bottle strap goes. This still did not provide good trim for me. so I moved it. I still need the weight (all of 6 lbs), but not as a V-weight. This is when I am diving without my canister light. When I use my canister light, then no weight is needed. My canister light is not 6 lbs negative, only three. I use 6 lbs as smaller weights move or fall out. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Connell [mailto:kevin@nw*.co*] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 9:04 AM To: Steve Hogan Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: Weight belts and backplates Steve, you're quoted below saying weight is needed, and that a v-weight doesn't work well with an argon bottle, neither of which are true. There, I said it without an insult. At 08:30 AM 3/16/1999 -0800, you wrote: >More insults... > >As you will see in a message that I just sent to Cobb, >The trim is far better (for me) than the V weight. > >FWIW, I dive in Southern Californina (Sunday 52 deg) > >Why don't you explain what you are doing instead of assuming >that anyone diving different than you is doing is wrong? > >Steve > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kevin Connell [mailto:kevin@nw*.co*] >Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 8:25 PM >To: Steve Hogan >Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com >Subject: RE: Weight belts and backplates > > >Yes, steve, please tell us about your cold water drysuit diving. > >It must be a miracle how I dive in 41f water without any weight. Or, maybe >it's just that I do it right, and you do it wrong. > > >At 06:15 PM 3/15/1999 -0800, you wrote: >>Cobb, >> >>You didn't answer the question. >> >>For cold water/drysuit diving more lead is required. A V-Weight >>does not work very well with the Argon bottle, so one needs to >>add weight somewhere. >> >>I have found that I need 6 lbs (for the end of the dive to be neutral) >>I use two canvas pockets that I slide on to the waist belt. I have made >>them so I *can* ditch weight if I choose to. No big deal. Ths also allows >>me to use the same BC for warm water/cold water, single tanks/double tanks. >>The pockets are also a good place to put a jon line, notes, whatever. >> >>The stainless steel backplate would be way too much in warm water (- 8lb) >>So I made the pockets. I can also remove these underwater (with gloves) >>if necessary and they do not get in the way. >> >>Yes, I could optimize with two different BCs (SS and AL), but why? >>This system allows flexibility without compromising any other piece of >>equipment. Besides, I would much rather drop a weight than my canister. >> >>Steve >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] >>Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 5:08 PM >>To: RLucas1013@ao*.co*; Tech Diver >>Subject: Re: Weight belts and backplates >> >> >>In warm water ocean diving when properly configured you are only putting >>about 6 lbs or so on your weightbelt. The whole point of the exercise is >>for you to be able to swim up to the surface, not to ditch your weights >>in a mad panic and head to the surface like a goddamn polaris missle. >> >>If you are tech diving in cold water with a 7mm farmer john that needs >>35lbs of lead to sink then you are Doing It Wrong. You need to be in a >>drysuit, a wetsuit is not an option here. And if you are in a drysuit you >>have 2 ways of getting yourself to the surface. If you need a little >>extra buoyancy you drop your cannister light and your tools. >> >>And while George knows of what he speaks, he is stating common sense, not >>dogma. If you think a little about the situation I think you will agree. >> >> Jim >> >>Sender: RLucas1013@ao*.co* Date: 3/15/99 5:02 PM >> >>>I thought the idea of a weight belt was to drop in an emergency. George >has >>>stated diving with double alum tanks and a wet suit a weight belt is the >>way >>>to go in open ocean, so in case of an emergency drop the weight. How do >you >>>drop a V weight in an emergency with double alum tanks and a wet suit if >>that >>>is what you were referring to? In any event how do you drop a V weight in >>an >>>emergency in open water? >>>BOB >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html >> >> >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> >----------------------------------------------- >Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*> > >NW Labor Systems, Inc >http://www.nwls.com > >And I suppose you want a user interface with >that..... >----------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------- Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*> NW Labor Systems, Inc http://www.nwls.com And I suppose you want a user interface with that..... ----------------------------------------------- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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