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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------74858097F527C3716209B021 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guys, please excuse me if I come in, I'm totally an outsider (I was a speleologist in the past and still I'm a scubadiver and a skydiver). I could follow your disputes during the past months, since I connected to this NG. I - usually - think to sport as sport and science as science and exploration as exploration, and I - usually - feel they can and should combine together, without conflicts - for major humankind benefits. And I think it's exactly what we did for years in the arctic and we're finally going to perform at the South Pole at the end of the year. It sounds really incredible and totally wrong to hear about this bloody fight between two groups acting in the same community and for the same purposes. I don't remember if such a kind of narrowed menthality depends more on the cavers or on the divers philosophy, I can only remember how a similar attitude (in the ristrected but empowered group of climbers/cavers in our speleological society) cancelled with silly motivations all our efforts of setting a cooperation with the Yugoslavian Academy of sciences (it was 1986), the Postumia's Caves Headquarters and other institutional resources for a mixed paleontological/scuba/speleo survey in the Adriatic area. I lost my face (together with another friend) in front of the Yugoslavian academists and the mankind lost a superbous prehistoric mastodont which was - later - stolen from individuals... I don't want absolutely enter your dispute about which group has the better skills, preparation and attitudes, but I can say the dispute itself is unnecessary, dangerous and absolutely a silly thing. Maybe this Nobel awarded diver didn't die because the "environmental" pressure, but you're totally wrong when continue to fight and drop tons of mud over the heads of a group already hit from a tragical loss. You put yourself out with your own attitude and you demonstrate your poor spirit. There's a kind of people continuosly searching for progress and technical innovation. Other people say proudly "I'm going deep on my one single cylinder, air and no BC..." outhers are proud of their macho-like gears and approach.. I think all of them are different and complemetary aspects of the same evolving community and sport. Remember, we're not request to fight against each other, we're already penetrating an environment which is not so friendly to our primitive phisic, we're still adapting our body to this experience and there's a lot to do, please stop fighting, start cooperating and have respect of victims. Anyone of us could be the next. Paolo Velcich industrial designer Udine - Italy pavel@ma*.na*.it* http://www.polarexpeditions.org http://nauta.com Jess Armantrout wrote: > yes Rick, this death is our fault. 13 years is nowhere near enough time to > get that deathtrap working, even for a Noble Prize winner in physics. And > 11 years is not enough time to learn from the mistakes of your first > project. And 5 years is not enough time to plan your second project, even > with a year delay in the starting date. And 3 months is not enough time to > get to 8000 feet in perfect conditions > > Do you realize the WKPP was at Wakulla 8 days in '98? The 18 grand dive was > setup, executed and cleaned up in 36 hours. If you want to know about time > pressure, ask George and Dawn how we have to beg for time to dive, how we > have to dive Thursdays and Fridays so as to not disturb the park, how we > have to put gear in before dawn and take it out after dark. Let's talk > about how we all have real jobs and pay our own way instaed of going around > asking for handouts. Try coming home from a weekend of diving, cleaning > your gear, fixing stuff that broke, mixing gas, filling tanks, repacking > gear and driving back to tallahasse the next weekend from up to 15 hours > away while putting in a 40 hour work week. That my friend is time pressure. > > Now let's talk about us helping stone...where do you see that we could have > been of help? We emphasize teamwork, fitness, safety, redundancy, using > methods proven in shallower less complex systems, never training at wakulla, > using only seasoned vetrans and ALWAYS HAVING A BUDDY! > > Chief, you don't have a clue. > > Trout > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Fincher <rnf@sp*.tb*.co*> > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 7:36 PM > Subject: Re: Nobel prize winner dies at Wakulla > > >snip... > > > >> he was on a Cis-Lunar RB, and he is confirmed died. They are claiming > that > >> the 0-2 set point was not set properly, and yes, he did die in shallow > >> water. Thats all I know for now. > >> > >> Mike Bruic > >> >> > >> > >> > >> I saw this on TV it never mentioned Wak-2 or Cave diving. Well it has > finally > >> happened it is too bad that it had to come to this. This whole thing > never > >> should of happened in the first place. You cannot introduce so much new > >> untried technology into an equation and have it work. This is why the > WKPP's > >> method of slow and easy...one new technology at a time with failsafe is > the > >> key to getting the job done and moving forward at the same time. > >> > >> Ray LaTulippe > > > >Then why did you put so much time pressure on those other guys? You guys > can be > >real proud. Instead of trying to help out you fought the other guys every > step > >of the way and sniped at them every chance you got. Now somebody is dead > and you > >can't wait to gloat. > > > >Rick > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. --------------74858097F527C3716209B021 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="pavel.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Paolo Velcich Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pavel.vcf" begin:vcard n:Velcich;Paolo x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:KORUM DESIGN adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:pavel@ma*.na*.it* title:industrial designer fn:Paolo Velcich end:vcard --------------74858097F527C3716209B021-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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