Maggie-

Sender: Maggie Owens  Date: 1/19/99 10:15 AM

>At 10:23 PM 1/18/99 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote:
>
>>I am surprized that the boats 
>>baby-sit the divers up there like that, I thought that was a Fla Keys 
>Most of them don't. But some do. Actually I just re-checked their policies.
>The Jeanne II says "redundant air source is strongly recommended" and the
>Eagle's Nest says that it is required only for penetration dives.
>Some of the boats have a high proportion of inexperienced divers (or
>inexperienced in the Northeast) on them, and they feel it is necessary to
>make sure that these people get into the water with a little redundancy so
>that if they do something stupid (which they often do), they don't get
>killed. In general, the divers I see on the Wahoo are a little more advanced.
>
>>The solution to this is to get a scooter and when you hit the wreck, 
>>crank that baby wide open and head as far as possible from the anchor 
>>line as fast as you can. 
>
>That sounds like a great idea. Do you have a spare scooter you could lend
>me from April through November? 


Have I got a solution for you! John Allen's Northeast Scuba Supply rents 
dacor scooter for practically nothing. See:

http://members.aol.com/NoreastSS/scuba.html

>>do. Then drop your own hang line and avoid the fist-fight at the hangbar. 
>We don't have "hangbars" here. You have to hold on to the anchor line or
>use a jon line. Or just keep swimming against the current...
>
>>And if you are wondering if a using a scooter will leave your mystery 
>>so-called "buddy" far behind, yes, it sure will. It suuuure will.
>
>Are you implying that I routinely dive solo?


I am implying that you consider using doubles and diving solo if the only 
buddy's you can find are a danger the themselves and you.


>>create a set double 50's. If you feel that you cannot 
>>possibly do the dive on a single tank then DIR and use doubles or don't 
>
>Double 50's sound like a great idea for April. Got an extra set you can
>loan me?
>

I'm sorry but I have a problem with folks compromising safety because 
they can't afford to do it right. In the sport of scuba you are nuts if 
you use this excuse.

>
>Sure it was. But it wouldn't've been good for the tank. Or I could've
>skipped the "safety stop" as you recommend.
>
>>As I have said, if you have to plan for catastropic disasters on every 
>>dive then you are better off with 2 ponys, right? Or three? Where do you 
>>draw the line? Why did you draw it there? I have voiced where *I* draw 
>>the line and the reasons for it. Nobody else has so far.
>
>One could argue like this about all sorts of redundancy. How many backup
>lights should I carry? Perhaps I shouldn't carry any backup lights at all,
>since I know how long the burn time of my primary is, and my buddy has a
>primary light, too.

For day diving you don't need any lights at all. But they are nice to 
have if you want to enjoy your dive. If you night dive or do penetration, 
I believe the recommendation is one main light and 2 backups. I don't 
think that your buddys lights count.

I think it's been pretty much proven that lights are on the delecate side 
and you have no way of telling how close the bulb is to burning out. 

Your scuba tank has a convenient gauge which can tell you all you need to 
know.

It seems to me that scuba gear is fundamentally designed to restrict the 
air outflow in the event of a failure so you have an opportunity to reach 
the surface (if you are not deco diving) safely. If you remove your HP 
hose and look in the 1st stage you will notice that it is supplied by a 
pin-hole. And so it go's through the rest of the system.

If you routinely suck your tank dry, are ponys really the topic we should 
be discussing right now, or should we be discussing the real issue?


>>But there it is, hanging off your tank, unreachable, you cant remove it 
>>and then put it back on, you can't see if it is leaking, how can you 
>>depend on it? A: you can't.
>
>I would like to argue that the pony should be reachable. I can reach the
>valve on my pony bottle. It's just a little harder to reach than the valve
>on my primary, but still reachable. As far as seeing if it is leaking, well
>I can't see if the valves of my doubles are leaking either, without taking
>my gear off. I know one guy who carries a mirror so he can look at the
>valves on his doubles and see if they are leaking. Granted, the guy uses
>bondage wings and dives solo (no buddy to tell him that his tanks are
>leaking), but his doubles and sling bottle configuration are correct.
>
>>A safety stop is a convenience item, not a requirement. If my dive got so 
>>fucked up that I lost all the air in my main tank, I think I'll just go 
>>ahead and skip the old safety stop and get the hell out of the water, if 
>>you know what I mean.
>
>Given that kind of choice, I would blow off a safety stop, or even my deco.
>I'd like to be around to keep diving for as many years as possible. But --
>for my personal preference (yikes!) a safety stop is a *requirement*. Knock
>on wood, I've never been bent. Maybe I would never have been bent if I
>didn't do any safety stops either, but why leave it to chance?
>
>>>I will admit it, on two occasions I have needed to use my pony bottle. Both
>>>times were in no-deco situations, and I didn't have enough gas in my tank
>>>to complete my safety stop without draining my main tank below 500 psi.
>>>This was due to complete and unforgivable strokery on my part. I made a
>>>mistake. And I learned from it.
>>
>>I will bet that it would only have been ONCE if you didn't have your 
>>"blanky" (as my son calls his tattered blanket he drags all over the 
>>place) pony with you. Maybe not even once.
>
>Or maybe everything would've come out okay -- I wouldn't've been bent and
>my tanks would have passed inspection for another year, and I'd decide that
>it was okay after all to routinely blow off safety stops.

Nobodies asking you to "routinely blow off safety stops" unless your 
dives routinely turn into giant clusterfucks.

   Jim

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