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Garloo- I have a problem with ponys. To me a pony is worse than independent doubles. It gives the diver the feeling that he or she can do what a doubles diver can do, i.e. penetrations and deco. Cobb's Corollary On Ponies: -If you think you need a pony then what you really need are doubles. -If you don't think you need doubles then you don't need a pony. IOW, if you are doing diving where a free-ascent is not an option, then you need to DIR and get a set of doubles. If you remember your training, air becomes available to you as you ascend, so why the pony? In answer to this question, most people give me all the exact reasons as to why you need doubles. "oh, I need to decompress" or "oh, I need air for my buddy" or "oh, I'm afraid of equipment failure" ...doubles, doubles, doubles. But what you pony boy's really should be doing is paying attention to your gauge, *thats* your "pony". And you will learn to pay attention to your gauge and react to what it says much faster if you don't have a pony "crutch" in the back of your mind. While nobody will admit it, the fact is that most pony divers use their bottle to extend their bottom time. And those who say they don't are lying. See the arguments on independent doubles for that. To me a Y-valve is better option than a pony, but you still should not consider a Y-valved single as a replacement for a set of isolated doubles. You guys with the 30cuft ponys hoseclamped to the sides of your tanks are knuckleheads and I have *no doubt in my mind* you are Doing It Wrong. If you see the video on the SkyCliffe you will see the divers rigs evolve from singles with pony's to DIR doubles. And I am seeing this on charters around here. So if pony's are so great, how can you explain this shift away from them by tech divers? The answer to that is people want to survive their dives. Anyway I have fought this battle before, you can do a search on the archives to see my comments on pony's in the past. Oh, yeah, for the whiney people out there, here's my disclaimer: I am not an instructor, these thoughts are my humble opinion, garnered from being an ex-ponyboy myself, graduating to doubles and having a zen-like experience of realization that ponys are bullshit. Jim Sender: GarlooEnt@ao*.co* Date: 1/14/99 1:14 AM >cobb >i have to admit that this is the best post & most helpfull post i have seen >from you since i'm on the list. >Manny- listen to his comments they are from the heart & should not be >dismissed. >the biggest problems that i have seen over the most recent years usually >involves divers who used "education" to replace the experience part. >jim i know what you are aiming at here, but my only question would be the >single tank. i really think a pony is important at some point, in the middle >of the jump to a double set up. >i don't want to make this a sticky point (i guess it falls into that awfull >thought of P.P :-) ). >over all your advice is correct & should be the last thing tought in the open >water classes & the first taught in every other class beyond that. >as joel has said many times >"safety is not an option" >hank > >In a message dated 1/13/1999 7:21:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, >cobber@ci*.co* writes: > ><< Subj: Re: Which course and school to use?? > Date: 1/13/1999 7:21:51 AM Pacific Standard Time > From: cobber@ci*.co* (Jim Cobb) > To: manuelkallis@bi*.co* (Manuel Kallis), techdiver@aquanaut.com (Tech >Diver) > > Dang, Manny, you sure learned the hard way. I would like to add that the > most important thing about getting trained is for the trainee to realize > that no matter how good (or bad) the instuction is it is YOUR ASS. That's > right, nobody is responsable for your ass but you. > > In this light, IMHO, it behooves the neophyte tech diver wannabe to: > > - Dive, dive, dive. Dive in the crappyiest conditions you can find. Get > cold, uncomfortable and queasy over and over in 60-100' dives. Don't go > into deco until you have done 60-70 dives in rotten, cold, shitty > conditions with a SINGLE TANK. There is absolutely nothing you can do > which will make up for experience. You must be absolutely and totally > comfortable underwater at night, in zero viz, in strong surges, cold, > etc. under all conditions before you take on a virtual or actual overhead > obligation. There is nothing in the classroom which can take the place of > this, nothing. Those 150 dive down in the Grand Caymans do not count, you > need to be able to function when conditions are not ideal, as most tech > dives are done in conditions which are not ideal. > > - Go ahead and fuck up. Go ahead and make your learning mistakes and > scare the shit out of yourself now while you still have the opportunity > to survive. Using a single tank is a key to this, you are forced to learn > how manage your air supply. You are forced to intimately come to grips > with the thing that keeps you alive underwater. You must learn your > breathing patterns and usage. When you get to the point that you forget > you have a regulator in your mouth you are making progress. > > - After you have done the above you have to have a real Coming To Jesus > with yourself. Do you really want to do this sort of thing? Do you really > want to make the investment in money, equipment and time to risk your > life in this fashion? Really, truly? Do you life insurance which covers > scuba? Have you had all the kids you are planning on? Is your Last Will & > Testament squared away? Has the Doctor given you the OK? YOU are the only > person who will know when YOU are ready. > > - Don't buy anything that you are not sure you need. To find out what you > need look at a DIR configuration. I know, I know, but you will have to > trust me on this one, go DIR and save yourself from doing a "Manny". > Although learning the hard way does sometimes have it's advantages, I > really hate all the ruined dive time I had with bogus equipment and > almost quit the sport because of it. My trimix page has a links to all > you need to know, check out the GUI web site and look under equipment. > Thats what you need. > > - What did I say earlier? Oh yeah. ITS YOUR ASS! Don't depend on ANYBODY > to pull your cookies out of the vise. You must be prepared to handle all > contingencies. You must read and investigate all aspects of this "tech > thing". You must understand decompression and understand completely what > breathing high PP's of gas is doing to your body. You must understand > your physical limitations. Other than vague liability concerns your > instructor really does not give 2 shits about you after you are out on > your own. It is your ass. Read, read, read. To understand when you are > ready you must be aware of all the risks. In this sport, knowledge is > life. > > While I don't have the experience of many divers on this list, I do know > this: There are some people who should not be diving, and you need to > determine without a doubt if you are one of them before you get to the > point of no return. I know that if one day I come to this realization you > will suddenly have the opportunity to purchase a complete DIR rig at a > great price. There's nothing down there worth dying for. > > Jim >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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