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Thomas, When you look at who it is that is saying "don't touch" it should be clear that they would not advocate closing the wrecks to visitors. It is the charter operators and divers who are the most vocal. We (the divers) don't want to see these wrecks closed to diving. The charter operators aremaking money taking us to dive the wrecks!!! Also understand that I view wrecks in the ocean MUCH diferently than I do the wrecks in fresh water (Great Lakes). We have the advantage of viewing these wrecks very much as they were when they first went down. Wood, ropes and riging are still in tact. With the exception of the shalower wrecks, which are becoming (became) encrusted with zebra mussels, there is no encrusting growth to obscure these ships. There are no spounges, boring worms, coral or alges to damage these wrecks. Many of these wrecks are in near perfict condition!!! As for who is doing the looting... From what I have seen and heard it comes from both sides of the border but most of it seem to be Americans (I am American)!!! For the most part it is just a few orginized groups that are in it for the money and a few idots that just have to have that belaying pin. The first group "Recover" artifacts for sale. these "recovered" objects bring good prices from dealers. It seems that many of these stolen objects find there way to East Coast dealers for sale. I have heard of objects that have been recovered but prosicution is diffecult in most cases. The trade is not ileagle in many of the East Coast states so the dealers are not guilty of any crime. However, when the object can be identified and traced back to the person responcable for its removal...... I have heard roumors of multi-state sting operations but I have not yet seen any prosecutions as a result. Perhaps soon??? Localy, many people belive that we know who some of the "local" thiefs are. We just don't yet have the proof we need to get the conviction. That will come in time I am sure!!! the second groupe is just as bad. After stealing the belaying pin, cup or plate they do a loose job of restoring the item. It looks like nothing more than a pice of junk, and thanks to their restoration job that is usualy what it becomes. Two years later they forget where it came from and their former "trophie" gets put in a garage and forgoten about untill they move or die. Eather way it gets thrown away!!! I know of several wrecks that have been striped this way. One of them was a modern tug which HAD many artifacts still onboard. The first time I dove the wreck it still had plates, cups and utencles in the galley. None of the stuff is of any real value. It was a modern working tug!!! The plates were the kind you would get a place setting of 4 for $20 a K Mart!!! But it is all gone now. The wreck is still a good dive but it was more interesting when all of the dishes were there. At 06:06 AM 12/23/98 , Thomas Rasbeck wrote: >Bill, > >What my intended meaning was is that the "people who say DON't Touch" are >not advocating a ban on exploration of these wrecks. Certainly most can >realize we have many reasons to leave these ships as they lay, but any >mainstream advocates for protection of wrecks(at least those I am aware of) >don't include an "off limits to visitors" >policy. > >I have many friends on both sides of the border who agree on the >preservation issue. >It's interesting,however, to sit in an audience in Ontario and hear that >the "most of the wreck strippers come from the other side of the lake" and >then hear the exact same opinion expressed here(New York State). Largely >BS.......... > >It sounds like Michigan's charters have their stuff together. You may be >able to enjoy your wrecks for years to come..... > > > TR > > >> From: Bill Bott <aquadart@ix*.ne*.co*> >> To: trasbeck@dr*.co*; Wahooorg@ao*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co* >> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com >> Subject: Re: Diver charged for looting the Empress >> Date: Thursday, December 24, 1998 11:55 PM >> >> Thomas, >> >> I have never been on a charter on the Great Lakes and NOT been told hands >> off!!! Checkout http://underwateroutfitters.com/charter.html The first >> thing below the heading on the page is an excerpt from the Michigan State >> law. I can tell you from experiance that that Capt. does not just say it >> he MEANS IT!!! If you take a look at >> http://underwateroutfitters.com/photo.html you may start to get an idea >why >> Great Lakes divers are so protestive of their wrecks. The Dunderburg >went >> down in 1868. Today you can still see the red paint on the eyes of the >> figurehead!!! There are many artifacts on some of these wrecks and at >> least a few on most of them. All of the charters up here will tell you >not >> to disterb the wrecks. And most of them MEEN IT!!! If cought with >> artifacts onboard the sheriff can and most likely will impound their boat >> and everything onboard. Many of us on the south side of the Lakes show >> equal restraint!!! >> >> Bill (aquadart) Bott Bill (aquadart) Bott -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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