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Oh come on! I don't know about where you are but typically a wreck is all but buried by us in 100 years. There are few exceptions to this rule. Some are covered over completely in less than 100 years and others seem to stay with us for longer. Lots of people enjoying the Fitz I'm sure! People don't show portholes because for the most part if you've seen one, you've seen them all. I've seen many pictures of items that I'd never get the chance to see. If they were not brought up, restored and photographed I'd never have gotten the chance to see them. Personally I don't get too much enjoyment seeing a 100 year old growth crusted anchor that is half buried in the sand. Leave it there and it all but disappeared in the sane anyway. Bring it up, restore it and display it in front of a restaurant and all get to enjoy it! Ever gone to some of the shows and seen the artifacts brought up? I have, I get to talk with the diver who brought it up too! Let's see, cheaper than going to a museum (usually free), I get to touch the artifact and talk to the person who brought it up... Hum, sounds like more fun than seeing it behind glass.... Just my feelings.... Art. -----Original Message----- From: Garrett Weinberg [SMTP:scubait@ix*.ne*.co*] Sent: Monday, December 21, 1998 9:50 AM To: GarlooEnt@ao*.co* Cc: CAPTZEROOO@ao*.co*; dkovach@ib*.ne*; HESSIANS@ao*.co*; Scaleworks@ao*.co*; Rubrifolia@ao*.co*; Sealass@ao*.co*; Ussfriel@ao*.co*; Wahoo2001@ao*.co*; Wahoojan@ao*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: Re: Diver charged for looting the Empress Before we take this public: (1) My e-mail to you was labeled private e-mail right at the top of the e-mail (2) You have choosen to take this public without regard to common courtesy (3) You then delete the phrase <Private e-mail> in appending my response to your e-mail Thus speaketh the act of a civilized man? You state in your e-mail (below): & yes i am different then some grafitti minded jerk carving his name in the caves if you can't tell the difference then we have no need to continue this conversation! How would I know that when you have shown me and the rest of the techdiver community that you are willing to disregard courtesy with respect to e-mails. Why would I suddenly expect more from you? On to the subject at hand: (1) Most "rescues" of artifacts end up in garages or basements of wreck rapists. They ain't rescued and they ain't artifacts. They are trophies of the hunt. (2) The only people who see these "historic artifacts" are the diver's buddies or visitors who wonder what the hell that port hole is doing in the downstairs "entertainment" center. They ain't on display at museums. (3) Museums don't want another porthole from the USS Minnow. They already have rejected dozens of donated portholes that have been "given" to them by other wreck rapists. (4) Ask the folks who visited the Edmond Fitzgerald about all of the treasures that they brought back. If I remeber correctly, they left (left not removed) a plaque commemorating the sailors who died on the Edmond. (5) Ask the divers who visit the warships at Truk (or whatever its now called). How many of them bring home skulls or other "trophies" or "collectables" (6) Many of us have already seen the results of wreck rapists at work. Anything of "value" has been stripped off and the only things we see underwater are the pitiful remains. (7) Don't use the monitor example with me. I separate the issue of visitng vs. plundering. If I'm no longer permitted to "visit" a wreck, it is probably because its been plundered by folks who can't leave their crowbars at home. It is safe to say that the wreck rapist have "wrecked": it for the rest of us who either prefer to just visit or take pictures. (8) Why not leave it. If we don't plunder, then we do have a convincing argument that we can make with various governments that we should be permitted a visit - that approach worked with the Edmond, it works with the ships at Truk, it probably will work with the ships at Bikini. (9) I've never said that the governnment is saving our wrecks. I've said that given the choice between idiots raping a wreck and leaving nothing for the rest of us to see, I would prefer the wreck to be off limits. If we can't control our own greed, we don't deserve the pleasure of the visitr. If you wish to continue this discussion, quote me exactly. Prove to me that you are different from the folks who carve their initials in caves. The jury is still out. Garrett Weinberg GarlooEnt@ao*.co* wrote: > unfortunatly garrett you & people like you are the joke in this tragedy. > the divers that have chosen to rescue artifacts from shipwrecks & the people > who would never have a chance to see them are the real victims here. > you want to place your trust in the government on this issue! thisshows me > your ignorance of the facts. you & people like you are just blind lemings > following the > asshole in front of you. > let me give you an example of the government control & what it means > > i'm sure you are familliar with the Monitor- you know that vry important > Civil War wreck that the government refused to let divers near until they were > forced too. > well after keeping us rapists off the wreck the navey is in the process of > physically tearing the wreck apart to "rescue" the gun turit. > now let me say that i have no problem with them doing this except for a > few things. > 1- it will cost you & me an outrages amount of money. > 2- they have no clue how to do this & save the rest of the ship, or the > remaining small artifacts. they will be lost forever when the rest of the > wreck collapses & is covered by the sand > so please spare me the retorict of our wonderful government saving our wrecks. > > & yes i am different then some grafitti minded jerk carving his name in the > caves if you can't tell the difference then we have no need to continue this > conversation! > > In a message dated 12/20/98 8:33:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, > scubait@ix*.ne*.co* writes: > > << You are joking of course. (At least I hope you are jo)king > > Given the alternative between wreck rapists and total control, I think I > would > prefer total control by the authorities rather than having ass holes ripping > out > more port holes.( I hate the thought of any government regulation and thus, > the > concept of me supporting government regulation should tell you how unhappy I > am > with your statements.) > > Are you any different that the fools who insist on carving their names in > caves so > that they can remember their dives? > > Garrett Weinberg >> -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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