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Jamie, Although there may not be a GOLDEN RULE for requiring a hard bottom, I would question a dive plan that takes new divers out to a site with such a depth, when they are still trying to master boyancy. When this sh*t flies, would you rather have a student go splat into the mud, or into the abyss? Again, we should all consider this kind of dive plan when adding names to the 'sh*t list'. Safe Diving At 17:50 21/09/1998 -0700, "Jamie E. Thiesfeld" <jamie@cw*.co*> wrote: >Al, > Heres some info on Mukilteo State Park: > 1) State park is open to divers of all certitification levels > 2) The "500' slope" starts about 30 yards from shore. > 3) The slope runs down about a 45 degree angle and gets very deep real >quick. > 4) This site has a couple of 3' benches between 50'-80' that are home to >octopus and is well known in > our diving community. > 5) Most dive stores in this state have used this as a training site for >anything from basic scuba to instructor > to mix, but most use it for advanced class deep dives. > 6) Most divers up here in the puget sound don't dive below about 80' >because of sunlight penetration and > significant reduction in marine life below this depth. >Having explained this I believe Garrett was responding to some idiots >blanket statement about taking students to dive sites where they could >exceed the depth limits of their gas is criminally dangerous. The words >"tunnel >vision" and "this guy doesn't live in the real world" come to mind when I >read statements like that. > Air fills in the puget sound area run 4 to 6 dollars and nitrox is >about 8 to 10 dollars. You may get 10% of the divers to dive nitrox but I'll >bet you never get the rest to switch. > I would not define the above slope as a "hard bottom" and the last time >I checked my agencies training standards there was no mention of a " hard >bottom" requirement. >---- >David >Central Washington Scuba Center >www.cwscuba.com >---- >-----Original Message----- >From: KybrSose@ao*.co* <KybrSose@ao*.co*> >To: scubait@ix*.ne*.co* <scubait@ix*.ne*.co*> >Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >Date: Sunday, September 20, 1998 8:35 PM >Subject: Re: Learning to identify and minimize risk - planet of the apes >part two > > >>In a message dated 9/20/98 2:22:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>scubait@ix*.ne*.co* writes: >> >>> And, if you remeber correctly, my example was a shore dive with a slope >that >>> oculd >>> reach 500 feet. Should open water students be diving there? That's the >>> question I >>> addressed. >>> >>> Where do we draw the line? >>> >>> Garrett Weinberg >> >> >> Garrett, >> >> How far is this slope? The continental shelf drops off some 40 miles or >so >>out to sea, but I think you have a more dramatic slope in mind. >> >> I cannot believe you would actually use the phrase "open water students", >in >>conjuction with the phrase " 500 feet". This is beyond ridiculous. All the >>agencies limit their open water students to 60 fsw or so of depth, and all >>require hard bottom sites for this training. Most recommend additional >>training before diving more advanced sites. Maybe you need to spend some >time >>on rec.scuba to refresh yourself with whats what. >> >> The original example concerned diving the top of the Hydro Atlantic with >a >>nitrox ill suited to the bottom< no nitrox is, Btw>, without regard to >>contingencies. >> >> While you may subscribe to the personal freedom interpretation of diving >>limits that says only you are responsible for you, those of us who survive >>your antics will surely call stupidity just that. >> >> I stand by my opinion stated below. >> >> regards, >> >> Al Marvelli >> >> >>> >>> KybrSose@ao*.co* wrote: >>> >>> > In a message dated 9/20/98 11:59:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >>> > scubait@ix*.ne*.co* writes: >>> > >>> > > Do you remember those types of divers? They don't care at all about >>> > > technical divers. They don't care about mix, they don't care about >>deco, >>> >>> > > they just want to put on a single tank and go diving and have fun. >No >>> dive >>> > > plan, just pure enjoyment. >>> > >>> > And you were discussing taking these divers to deep dive sites, and >>> hoping >>> > they could deal with it. Taking divers equiped as such, with these >>> mindsets, >>> > to dives sites that dont have a hard bottom at 100 fsw is criminally >>> reckless. >>> > >>> > My opinion. >>> > >>> > AL Marvelli >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > Sid.Dive@Ib*.Ne* Toronto, Canada -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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