Dan,

I know you are a nice guy, but now you are being too nice.  What we see over
and over is something like this:

Clueless new guy makes a stupid statement.
Clueless new guy gets hammered on the list.
Clueless new guy whines to the list.
Clueless new guy gets lots of private posts explaining why he is clueless.
Clueless new guy recognizes he is clueless (most people are pretty smart)
and the incident ends.

This is self-regulation at its best.

Walter


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Volker <dlv@ga*.ne*>
To: 'Ranjit Chagar' <ranjit@cs*.co*>; wrolf@co*.ne*
<wrolf@co*.ne*>
Cc: 'Tech Diver' <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; 'Bill Mee' <wwm@sa*.ne*>
Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: "Dangerous on the Net".


>Rangit,
>Virtually every DIR concept makes so much sense, most of us intuitively
>realize this was what we should always have done. This precludes any chance
>of questioning its validity. Seeing its testing ground and results in WKPP
>records for exposures and safety, should be all that remains to convince
>those gifted with a sense for finding the best path.
>
>In College, if you decided you wanted to argue with a professor on the
>relative merits of Kantian Categorical Imperatives, over the Professor's
>choice of Hume and his form of "personal preference ( for morality ) , you
>would be well off as a free thinker, and your questioning would have value.
>This scenario works great in school, works OK at times in "some" work
>places, but does "NOT" work when lives are at stake. If you want to
question
>DIR, first watch all the videos, read the DIR ideas you get from Deja News
>searches or tech diver archives, and then ask for DIR proponents you can
>discuss things with in private. Trying to create a public battle over each
>DIR idea, damages the learning curve for others. If no one can privately
>explain a DIR reasoning to you, and you honestly want to understand it,
THEN
>go public with your question on the list. Ask, don't challenge.
>Too many novice techies have begun by questioning every single issue from
>the start of DIR concepts, and these questions were already answered 1000
>times before. Their questions are no more than the "student mechanism" to
>make learning easier for "them", but with no thought of the disruption it
>causes to the large body of "other" newcomers. A college professor will
>"tolerate" this, George won't.
>Regards,
>Dan
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ranjit Chagar [mailto:ranjit@cs*.co*]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 10:06 PM
>> To: 'Dan Volker'; 'wrolf@co*.ne*'
>> Cc: 'Tech Diver'; 'Bill Mee'
>> Subject: RE: "Dangerous on the Net".
>>
>>
>> Wrolf,
>>
>> Well said. I also have to agree with mikes comments. Given the kind of
>> diving that we are discussing here, if a person has to be told exactly
>> what to do, and then does not question it, is this the kind of person
>> you want to be diving with? I would hope (and it is a fervent hope at
>> that) that the people we are talking about have enough sense to listen
>> to the viewpoints and then make a EDUCATED decision.
>>
>> Me personally, I will keep listening to what the Wrolf Courtneys and
>> John Hanzels out there have to say, and I'll also listen to what
>> George/WKPP and DIR diving say. In my opinion they have a lot of good
>> things to say. And then I will think about what works for me, what
>> constitutes a safe dive and what will ensure I live to a ripe old age.
>>
>> Ranjit
>>
>> P.S. Sorry about not providing covering fire for your retreat
>> wrolf, the
>> dive boat was serving hot coffee, and it had been a long dive.
>>
>> P.P.S. Pia sends her regards.
>>
>> P.P.P.S. Pia also asks that you don't repeat the story she told you
>> about the vienna boys choir whilst you were taking heavy fire.
>>
>> >----------
>> >From: Wrolf Courtney[SMTP:wrolf@co*.ne*]
>> >Sent: 13 August 1998 03:56
>> >To: Dan Volker
>> >Cc: 'Tech Diver'; 'Bill Mee'
>> >Subject: Re: "Dangerous on the Net".
>> >
>> >Dan Volker wrote:
>> >> If you were in a group of 20 persons, huddled under cover,
>> as terrorists
>> >> sprayed gunfire above your heads, how would you feel about
>> a moron next to
>> >> you, urging the group to stand up, out of cover, and run
>> away----and you
>> >> knowing full well this would put all in the line of fire,
>> causing members
>> >>of
>> >> your group to die immediately.....would you defend this
>> moron's right to
>> >> express his opinion???
>> >
>> >I have no idea how you even heard about this incident.
>> >
>> >But there were only about six of us, not twenty.  And I
>> still think Pia
>> >(I think that was her name) was right when she said to go
>> forward.  (Pia
>> >was the fair haired young Dutch woman that I had the hots for.)
>> >
>> >With the concave hill, plus the flat bunker, the bullets
>> were actually a
>> >lot further overhead once I got in close.  But I could certainly hear
>> >them.  Like they say in the Clint Eastwood movie "Heartbreak
>> Ridge", you
>> >never forget the sound of an AK-47 aimed at you.
>> >
>> >I had already figured out after we were all in cover, that the long
>> >breaks to change magazines, and the continuing overs, meant
>> that it was
>> >probably target practice by some of the reservists on the
>> kibbutz.  And
>> >that is what it was.
>> >
>> >But some loudmouth had to come forward.
>> >
>> >Wrolf
>> >
>> >Wrolf's Wreck: http://www.concentric.net/~Wrolf
>> >
>> >P.S.  At the request of Ken Sallot <kens@ac*.ne*>, I am
>> >"keep[ing] this shit off of Cavers."
>> >
>> >P.P.S.  I am neither brave, nor is this an attempt to claim
>> some such.
>> >In fact the whole thing scared me so much, that for a long time
>> >afterward, I would do things like jump behind walls and try
>> to drag my
>> >fiancee with me, if an electric line in the street crackled
>> and banged.
>> >
>> >P.P.P.S.  We could not retire laterally, because the
>> minefield stretched
>> >on both sides.  Also it was totally overgrown, and the
>> escarpment slope
>> >of the Golan Heights.  We could not retire to the rear,
>> because then the
>> >overs would stop being, well, over.  And there was less cover.
>> >
>> >P.P.P.P.S. I married Debbie, who I met later.  I wonder what
>> happened to
>> >Pia?
>> >
>> >--
>> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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>> >
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>
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