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Reply to: RE: Dangerous on the Net.
Dan - I couldn't agree more. I think the Internet as a communications =
medium can be dangerous. The faceless quality of the internet coupled with =
the immediacey and broad reach gives people (myself included) the ability =
to make asses of themselves rather quickly. The visual / audible feedback =
given with most other forms of conversation are lacking and that can be a =
dangerous thing!
I hope that I may be able to someday put faces to names of people that =
I have read on this list and over on rec.scuba. =
You can put a face to my name (well sort of) at http://www.ultranet.com/=
~jhanzl (it's me on left)
Don't mean to bog the list with personal crap - I'm done!
JohnnyH
Dan Volker wrote:
>John,
>Maybe you are a "born again DIR diver" as of now, and no longer represent
>the image you portrayed a month ago:-)
> Still, recent posts by you were a good current example of an issue which
>faces the tech list.
>
>Each of us can become an asshole with our next post, or can become more =
of a
>contributor with a good post....If you've suddenly become a posterboy for
>tech list stardom, we'll all know about it soon enough, and if that =
happens,
>I and others will herald your "arrival" :-)
>
>Regards,
>Dan Volker
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Hanzl [mailto:jhanzl@ra*.co*]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:55 PM
>> To: 'cavers'; 'Tech Diver'; Dan Volker
>> Cc: 'Bill Mee'
>> Subject: RE: Dangerous on the Net.
>>
>>
>> Reply to: RE: Dangerous on the Net.
>> Wow! Talk about what's wrong with the Internet as a
>> communications medium!
>> I write one post trying to find more about people such as the
>> WKPP, what DIR is, (Absolutely NOTHING negative - I didn't know
>> anything about them) and offer to help pull information into a
>> useful content while suggesting (and rather politely) that
>> bashing is probably not the best way to get people to see your point...
>>
>> I write a second post asking for feedback on the idea of a
>> manifold that whistles underwater when the valve is turned
>> (rolled) off. It was just a suggestion cause I am an engineer and
>> I like to invent stuff
>>
>> And BOOM! I read crap like:
>>
>> >>>>If Hanzel wants to disagree with George's taste in
>> music---fine---he has the
>> >right, and this disagreement will "kill" no one. When George/WKPP and =
DIR
>> >diving say with absolute certainty, that a certain practice
>
>> say, stuffing
>> >the long hose, or using tanks with no markings ) is WRONG, for Hanzel =
or
>> >Wrolf to "argue" with this, and demand proof, is tantamount to
>> threatening
>> >the safety of any who listens to them. Neither of these
>> individuals has ANY
>> >skill level allowing them to place their ideas on Equal footing with =
DIR
>> >philosophy. Yet by the intensity with which they argue, they can
>> effectively
>> >destroy the potential DIR has to save lives<<<
>>
>> What the hell is Volker talking about??? Wrong taco paco! Next
>> time you want to flame someone, I suggest you get off your fat
>> ass and make damn sure you have the right flamee! I mean, this
>> really pisses me off! Who the hell are you to drag me into your
>> ego trip? Christ, I mean, I admitted I was a 'newbie' to tech
>> diving and I only wanted some suggestions and maybe make some
>> contacts. Now my good name has been dragged through your mud.
>> For the record - I have, since my first post asking about the
>> WKPP and DIR, researched it and find DIR to make perfect sense. I
>> have never (not ONCE!) made a single negative comment about any
>> tech method because I would be the first to admit that I am not
>> qualified to make those judgments. I have also NEVER demanded
>> anything from anyone! And though I don't demand it, if Volker had
>> any shred of decency in his body he would offer a public apology
>> to me for his misplaced slanderous remarks!
>>
>> John Hanzl
>> (JohnnyH)
>> jhanzl@ra*.co*
>> Dan Volker wrote: >
>> >
>> >In the science fiction movie classic, "DUNE", the Fremen said of Paul
>> >Mahdib, " He can kill with a word or a thought".
>> >
>> >In technical diving, today, catastrophically dangerous gear
>> configurations
>> >and procedures are accepted by many, standardized by some, and those =
who
>> >step forth on the tech list, supporting these dangerous notions, =
arguing
>> >against the face of logic and exposure proven DIR (Doing it Right)
>> >practices, bring the exaggerations of science fiction to real life...=
and
>> >death.
>> >
>> >The Wrolf Courtneys and John Hanzels out there, have the
>> potential to "kill"
>> >with their ideas. They argue repeatedly with the most basic and
>> well proven
>> >DIR concepts, and by the volume and intensity of their arguments and
>> >questionings, they bring confusion and uncertainty to issues
>> which have been
>> >settled previously, and which by implementation, would enjoy =
pervasive
>> >life saving functions. With each successive denial of DIR credos by =
the
>> >Hanzels and Wrolfs out there, they forestall the process of
>> implementation
>> >in the "learning stage technical divers", and justify the unsafe
>> practices
>> >of the past which we are now trying to do away with.
>> >
>> >This is NOT about a "Right to free speech". Its about the
>> "power" of certain
>> >types of ideas.
>> >If Hanzel wants to disagree with George's taste in
>> music---fine---he has the
>> >right, and this disagreement will "kill" no one. When George/WKPP and =
DIR
>> >diving say with absolute certainty, that a certain practice
>
>> say, stuffing
>> >the long hose, or using tanks with no markings ) is WRONG, for Hanzel =
or
>> >Wrolf to "argue" with this, and demand proof, is tantamount to
>> threatening
>> >the safety of any who listens to them. Neither of these
>> individuals has ANY
>> >skill level allowing them to place their ideas on Equal footing with =
DIR
>> >philosophy. Yet by the intensity with which they argue, they can
>> effectively
>> >destroy the potential DIR has to save lives. By their
>> "demanding" of proof,
>> >for each DIR practice or configuration, they slow the
>> acceptance, and raise
>> >enough doubt in the mind of the novice, to prevent immediate
>> adoption of a
>> >practice that would save their life.
>> >
>> >Yes we all have a right to free speech. But when those of us who
>> are without
>> >knowledge ( i.e., Wrolf, Hanzel, et al ) , argue publicly
>> against those who
>> >do---on issues in which life or death will most certainly result, the
>> >"Right" to public free speech can allow an errant individual to
>> commit what
>> >is in reality, a CRIME against the technical diving community. Rapid
>> >adoption of DIR would save lives. For the novice with
>> intellectual pretense,
>> >to attack basic DIR implementation, using only his sense of "apriori
>> >knowledge", behavior like this must be seen as contributory to future
>> >deaths, and constant sanctions on them, by the "skilled" divers in the
>> >group, MUST answer this irresponsible behavior.
>> >
>> >If you were in a group of 20 persons, huddled under cover, as =
terrorists
>> >sprayed gunfire above your heads, how would you feel about a
>> moron next to
>> >you, urging the group to stand up, out of cover, and run away----and =
you
>> >knowing full well this would put all in the line of fire,
>> causing members of
>> >your group to die immediately.....would you defend this moron's right =
to
>> >express his opinion???
>> >With the tremendous increase in technical diving deaths we are
>> now facing,
>> >we are facing the equivalent of this gunfire over our heads.
>> When Hanzel, or
>> >Wrolf, or even Gilliam speaks up, and claims sticking your head up is
>> >"safe", someone needs to smack them silly, and shut the morons up =
before
>> >they get someone killed.
>> >As you may have noticed, there are some "watchdogs" in this Internet
>> >community, that are doing just that. I for one, appreciate their =
efforts.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Dan Volker
>> >
>> >--
>> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.=
>> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'=
..
>> >
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>> >From: "Dan Volker" <dlv@ga*.ne*>
>> >To: "'Tech Diver'" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>, "'cavers'" <cavers@ge*.=
com>
>> >Cc: "'Bill Mee'" <wwm@sa*.ne*>
>> >Subject: "Dangerous on the Net".
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>From: "Dan Volker" <dlv@ga*.ne*>
>To: "John Hanzl" <jhanzl@ra*.co*>, "'cavers'" <cavers@ge*.co*>,
> "'Tech Diver'" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>Cc: "'Bill Mee'" <wwm@sa*.ne*>
>Subject: RE: Dangerous on the Net.
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:05:35 -0400
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