John,
Maybe you are a "born again DIR diver" as of now, and no longer represent
the image you portrayed a month ago:-)
 Still, recent posts by you were a good current example of an issue which
faces the tech list.

Each of us can become an asshole with our next post, or can become more of a
contributor with a good post....If you've suddenly become a posterboy for
tech list stardom, we'll all know about it soon enough, and if that happens,
I and others will herald your "arrival" :-)

Regards,
Dan Volker

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hanzl [mailto:jhanzl@ra*.co*]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:55 PM
> To: 'cavers'; 'Tech Diver'; Dan Volker
> Cc: 'Bill Mee'
> Subject: RE: Dangerous on the Net.
>
>
>          Reply to:   RE: Dangerous on the Net.
> Wow! Talk about what's wrong with the Internet as a
> communications medium!
> I write one post trying to find more about people such as the
> WKPP, what DIR is, (Absolutely NOTHING negative - I didn't know
> anything about them) and offer to help pull information into a
> useful content while suggesting (and rather politely) that
> bashing is probably not the best way to get people to see your point...
>
> I write a second post asking for feedback on the idea of a
> manifold that whistles underwater when the valve is turned
> (rolled) off. It was just a suggestion cause I am an engineer and
> I like to invent stuff
>
> And BOOM! I read crap like:
>
> >>>>If Hanzel wants to disagree with George's taste in
> music---fine---he has the
> >right, and this disagreement will "kill" no one. When George/WKPP and DIR
> >diving say with absolute certainty, that a certain practice

> say, stuffing
> >the long hose, or using tanks with no markings ) is WRONG, for Hanzel or
> >Wrolf to "argue" with this, and demand proof, is tantamount to
> threatening
> >the safety of any who listens to them. Neither of these
> individuals has ANY
> >skill level allowing them to place their ideas on Equal footing with DIR
> >philosophy. Yet by the intensity with which they argue, they can
> effectively
> >destroy the potential DIR has to save lives<<<
>
> What the hell is Volker talking about??? Wrong taco paco! Next
> time you want to flame someone, I suggest you get off your fat
> ass and make damn sure you have the right flamee! I mean, this
> really pisses me off! Who the hell are you to drag me into your
> ego trip? Christ, I mean, I admitted I was a 'newbie' to tech
> diving and I only wanted some suggestions and maybe make some
> contacts. Now my good name has been dragged through your mud.
> For the record - I have, since my first post asking about the
> WKPP and DIR, researched it and find DIR to make perfect sense. I
> have never (not ONCE!) made a single negative comment about any
> tech method because I would be the first to admit that I am not
> qualified to make those judgments.  I have also NEVER demanded
> anything from anyone! And though I don't demand it, if Volker had
> any shred of decency in his body he would offer a public apology
> to me for his misplaced slanderous remarks!
>
> John Hanzl
> (JohnnyH)
> jhanzl@ra*.co*
> Dan Volker wrote: >
> >
> >In the science fiction movie classic, "DUNE", the Fremen said of Paul
> >Mahdib, " He can kill with a word or a thought".
> >
> >In technical diving, today, catastrophically dangerous gear
> configurations
> >and procedures are accepted by many, standardized by some, and those who
> >step forth on the tech list, supporting these dangerous notions, arguing
> >against the face of logic and exposure proven DIR (Doing it Right)
> >practices, bring the exaggerations of science fiction to real life...and
> >death.
> >
> >The Wrolf Courtneys and John Hanzels out there, have the
> potential to "kill"
> >with their ideas. They argue repeatedly with the most basic and
> well proven
> >DIR concepts, and by the volume and intensity of their arguments and
> >questionings, they bring confusion and uncertainty to issues
> which have been
> >settled previously, and which by implementation, would   enjoy  pervasive
> >life saving functions. With each successive denial of DIR credos by the
> >Hanzels and Wrolfs out there, they forestall the process of
> implementation
> >in the "learning stage technical divers", and justify the unsafe
> practices
> >of the past which we are now trying to do away with.
> >
> >This is NOT about a "Right to free speech". Its about the
> "power" of certain
> >types of ideas.
> >If Hanzel wants to disagree with George's taste in
> music---fine---he has the
> >right, and this disagreement will "kill" no one. When George/WKPP and DIR
> >diving say with absolute certainty, that a certain practice

> say, stuffing
> >the long hose, or using tanks with no markings ) is WRONG, for Hanzel or
> >Wrolf to "argue" with this, and demand proof, is tantamount to
> threatening
> >the safety of any who listens to them. Neither of these
> individuals has ANY
> >skill level allowing them to place their ideas on Equal footing with DIR
> >philosophy. Yet by the intensity with which they argue, they can
> effectively
> >destroy the potential DIR has to save lives. By their
> "demanding" of proof,
> >for each DIR practice or configuration, they slow the
> acceptance, and raise
> >enough doubt in the mind of the novice, to prevent immediate
> adoption of a
> >practice that would save their life.
> >
> >Yes we all have a right to free speech. But when those of us who
> are without
> >knowledge ( i.e., Wrolf, Hanzel, et al ) , argue publicly
> against those who
> >do---on issues in which life or death will most certainly result, the
> >"Right" to public  free speech can allow an errant individual to
> commit what
> >is in reality, a CRIME against the technical diving community. Rapid
> >adoption of DIR would save lives. For the novice with
> intellectual pretense,
> >to attack basic DIR implementation, using only his sense of "apriori
> >knowledge", behavior like this must be seen as contributory to future
> >deaths, and constant sanctions on them, by the "skilled" divers in the
> >group, MUST answer this irresponsible behavior.
> >
> >If you were in a group of 20 persons, huddled under cover, as terrorists
> >sprayed gunfire above your heads, how would you feel about a
> moron next to
> >you, urging the group to stand up, out of cover, and run away----and you
> >knowing full well this would put all in the line of fire,
> causing members of
> >your group to die immediately.....would you defend this moron's right to
> >express his opinion???
> >With the tremendous increase in technical diving deaths we are
> now facing,
> >we are facing the equivalent of this gunfire over our heads.
> When Hanzel, or
> >Wrolf, or even Gilliam speaks up, and claims sticking your head up is
> >"safe", someone needs to smack them silly, and shut the morons up before
> >they get someone killed.
> >As you may have noticed, there are some "watchdogs" in this Internet
> >community, that are doing just that. I for one, appreciate their efforts.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Dan Volker
> >
> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
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> >From: "Dan Volker" <dlv@ga*.ne*>
> >To: "'Tech Diver'" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>, "'cavers'"
<cavers@ge*.co*>
> >Cc: "'Bill Mee'" <wwm@sa*.ne*>
> >Subject: "Dangerous on the Net".
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