Will,

I guess I got your attention Will, now YOU spare me your standard
diatribe and listen up. There is nothing about politics here. Now YOU
have had a taste of death and instead of recognizing the problem you
concern yourself instead with some sort of imaginary political agenda on
my part. YOU are the problem Will and the sooner you come to grips with
it the better for everyone.

You are a pontificating neophyte bs artist with a handful of dives under
your belt and a propensity to yap ad infinitum on every subject under
the sun. Now you tell us that you were at the scene of the disaster. 
It's the same idiots in the same situations, breathing 80/20 at depth,
no bottle markings, convoluted gear the whole thing reads like deja vue.
It was same nonsense when Jane Oernstein was killed and in the WPB
deaths. The problem is in the training and as usual you try to do
exactly what I said and try to make it look like we are the problem.

BOAT CAPTAINS BEWARE OF THE PROBLEM:

When a chain smoking, pontificating, "know it all expert" with 10 or 20
lifetime socalled "tech" dives swaggers on to your boat you need to do
the right thing and refund him his money and send him ashore. Ask the
charter captains in Saba about a "big shot" tech diver named Will
Smithers and fasten your seatbelt for the answer. This guy dodged the
bullet once and in the process nearly put an end to tech diving on the
island. 

-Bill 


William M. Smithers wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Bill Mee wrote:
> 
> > What caused or contributed to the death of this young man?  Will we hear
> > that "deep air" or the suicidal practice of diving with mix in a stage
> > bottle and air in the back caused it?  Will we find out that he breathed
> > the wrong gas from a stage bottle not properly marked with the MOD?
> > Will we find out that this was a cluster caused by convoluted
> > equipment?  Were the usual bearded, pontificating, step aside for the
> > experts, pendulous gutted cast of characters on board the boat, pizza
> > stained Doria shirts and all?
> >
> > Who is to blame?  …. After the last Doria death Irvine wrote the
> > following terse expression of absolute frothing, spitting frustration:
> >
> 
> Bill, to be honest, your self-serving myopic agenda makes
> me want to puke.  On the one hand, you spew all kinds of
> pseudo-compassionate BS about loved-ones, and on the other,
> all kinds of crap that is singularly aimed toward your
> political goals.  That is the kind of two-faced manipulation
> that we've all come to expect from your ilk, and it
> is simply repulsive.  The "pizza-stained Doria T-shirt"
> stereotype is so off-the-mark that it would actually
> be funny, if it weren't for the fact that you're
> being arrogantly smug about real lives here.
> 
> I was out diving the Andrea Doria on Sunday, on
> the Seeker (yes, the very same boat that's seen
> the past three deaths, including the latest one,
> just two days ago - the trip immediately following
> the one I was on).
> 
> For your benefit, here is the pre-trip "pep-talk"
> from Dan Crowell, the Captain, who is not only
> a very nice guy, but upholds the most rigorous
> standards of any dive charter I've been on, anywhere.  Your
> cheap shots are just that - cheap.  And while
> I'm sure your local cave diving slaves are
> salivating over your pearls of wisdom, you
> are still cheap, and always will be, as long
> as you try to pull this crap.
> 
> So, from Dan:
> "As I'm sure you've heard, there have been two
> deaths recently on the Seeker, both while
> we were diving the Andrea Doria.  The first
> of these, as far as we can tell, was not
> directly related to diving - it appears
> to be directly health-related.  The second
> was not so.   He repeatedly stated where
> he intended to go, bent on finding china,
> and both myself and the crew repeatedly
> counciled him that that was a very
> hairy part of the wreck that, in our
> opinion, was beyond his experience level,
> and should not be attempted under any
> circumstances.  But he got greedy, and
> ignored our advice, and while we all once considered
> him both a competent diver and a lively
> person, now, well, he is neither, and
> never will be again.  Not only that,
> but his stupid actions completely ruined
> everyone else's trip.  This is a serious
> dive site, so please, take it seriously."
> 
> BTW, Dan Crowell insists that every diver
> on his boat for a 'Doria trip has a
> trimix certification - you can't get
> on board otherwise.  The Seeker *only*
> does the deep 'n nasty stuff up here and
> upholds the highest standards of any
> boat I know of, and among N.E. wrecks, the 'Doria
> is not nearly the hairiest of them.
> 
> To be perfectly frank, I won't make hollow platitudes
> about how I feel for the loved ones of the deceased - that's
> bullshit, and your transparent snideness makes it plain
> that you agree.  But everyone up here is very disturbed
> by the recent events, and there is no clear answer
> of "strokery" to satisfy quick hunger for answers - this
> last guy had logged over 30 trips to the 'Doria, was
> diving the proper mix, and was otherwise properly prepared.
> 
> So Bill, don't make yourself look like an ass
> by posturing with a bunch of nonsense.  Those poor
> bastards on the boat administered CPR for *hours*
> after this guy had embolized all over the place - it was
> a very messy scene on the boat.  Spare us your crap, for once.
> 
> -Will
> 
> 
> > >The preoccupation with "depth" is another big mistake you are
> > >making in instruction. The way you are teaching decompression is all
> > >wrong. The understanding of the true risks and how to minimize them is
> > >totally missing from tech instruction. The screening is incomplete and
> > >improper. The understanding of this is nil. The rebreather end of the
> > >game is out of control. The rest is ridiculous - look at the track
> > >record.
> >
> > When you see who is doing the instruction you are not surprised.  Just
> > to prove my point I have included comments below written by an
> > instructor, who had a fatality occur on his watch in Lake Wazee.  This
> > is so dangerously stupid that you want to garrote the individual who
> > loosed this cretin on the innocent.  Still, this is the tip of the
> > proverbial iceberg.
> >
> > Go ahead, argue with us.  Tell us that we are the problem with tech
> > diving. Tell me that people will only listen to this message if we are
> > polite in the delivery. Nonsense. Blind yourself to the tragedy until
> > the shadow of death crosses your path or listen.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bruce J. Belschner wrote:
> > >
> > > The only correction is that the boat was the SEEKER.
> > >
> > > Nanci LeVake wrote:
> > >
> > > > >From: "LARRY CHARLOT" <lcharlot@jp*.ne*>
> > > >
> > > > >Nanci - this is a clip from the Sacramento Bee (origianally from
> > > > Associated Press wire service).
> > > > >
> > > > >"NANTUCKET, Mass. (August 4, 1998 10:36 p.m. EDT) -- For the third
time in
> > > > three months, a diver exploring the wreck site of the Andrea Doria has
> > > > died, Coast Guard officials said. A 32-year-old recreational diver from
the
> > > > charter dive boat Sea Inn surfaced unconscious near the site 46 miles
south
> > > > of Nantucket around 4:30 p.m. Tuesday.
> > > > >
> > > > >The boat's crew members administered CPR to the diver until Coast Guard
> > > > rescuers could transport him by helicopter to Cape Cod Hospital in
Hyannis.
> > > > >
> > > > >He was declared dead on arrival, authorities said.
> > > > >
> > > > >The Andrea Doria, a luxury Italian ocean liner which sank more than 40
> > > > years ago after colliding with a Norwegian freighter, is known as a
popular
> > > > site among experienced divers."
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > B2
> > > ======================================
> > > Bruce J. Belschner
> > > --------------------------------------
> > Subject:
> >         Re: dumb ass
> >   Date:
> >         Tue, 5 Apr 1994 09:19:11 -0400
> >   From:
> >         "Greg Zambeck" <gzambeck@us*.ne*>
> >     To:
> >         <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> >
> >
> > Boy George I was wondering how does a customer feel when he spends
> > 3500.00
> > for piece of equipment that he does the consumer product testing on.
> >
> > Let's face it george you didn't do the product testing that should be
> > done
> > and you still don't.
> >
> > You got caught in you lie when you denied it last year.
> >
> > Then to have Tom Mount tell us about his scooter that burner out a motor
> > is
> > 30 minutes, after the switch fell off.
> >
> > But the best part was when you started offering your customer's a
> > dielectric oil filled motor.
> >
> > Spend 3500.00 just to find out your scooter should have been built with
> > technology that's been around for twenty years.
> >
> > Now who feels like the Dumb Ass?
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Katherine V. Irvine <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> > > To: gzambeck@us*.ne*
> > > Cc: techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Subject: dumb ass
> > > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 5:49 AM
> > >
> > > Advertised "capasity"? How about 18 G's in a cave, dumb ass? BS
> > > coming from a known stroke like you is intolerable. There is stupid, and
> > > then ther is ........
> > >
> > >    Greg, YOU are the posterboy problem child of tech diving , the ROOT
> > > of the problem: a moron who does nothing and has all the answers, and is
> > > an instructor. Your mental "capasity" is scary. Luckily, you come onto
> > > this list and say some of the stupidest things ever said, hopefully
> > > warning off any potential students before they end up on the bottom of
> > > Lake Wazee. What is your personal body count these days, big guy?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'..
> >
> > Subject:
> >             The Ultimate is sheer stupidity
> >        Date:
> >             Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:27:32 -0400
> >        From:
> >             "Katherine V. Irvine" <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> > Organization:
> >             DIR
> >          To:
> >             cavers@ca*.co*
> >         CC:
> >             techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >
> >
> > The first prize-winning piece of stupidity again goes to the usual
> > suspect. THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG OUT TEHRE - THIS GUY IS A DIVE
> > INSTRUCTOR. He is so stupid that he does not realize why what he is
> > recommending will not work. Can somebody please explain to this guy what
> > the score is . There is stupid, and then there is.......
> >
> > At 09:15 20/07/1998 -0400, "Greg Zambeck"  wrote:
> >
> > >Hate to burst your bubble but the dive have a colored tanks, content
> > >stickers, label for the gas mixtures and a green regulator bag on his NXT80
> > >and orange regulator bag an the NTX36.  All three gas mixture had different
> > >regulator styles to distinguish the mixture in a silt out.  Tape was used
> > >to mark the tanks after being refilled on the boat.  You need to read the
> > >information closer.  Mr. Ramio wasn't on the boat and doesn't know this
> > >diver, who was meticulous on marking his equipment.
> >
> > Sid.Dive@Ib*.Ne*
> > Toronto, Canada
> >
> >
> 
> --
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