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Jammer Six wrote: > On 7/22/98 20:06, Claus Lisberg, clisberg@po*.te*.dk* posted: > > >Certainly. I've also learned that a teacher usually has a great deal of > >knowledge, but time spent in what's equivalent to your sunday school showed > >me that blind faith is not the way to go > > >Not sure I'm following you here. Debating can in some situations the > >ultimate way of learning something - it'll remove those nagging doubts one > >might have, or even prove a theory utterly wrong. > > > >I question everything, including my own sanity. > > "A cat who sits on a hot stove will never again repeat that mistake. > Unfortunately, neither will it sit on a cold one..." -Mark Twain > > If you're going to base your learning methods on sunday school, we might > as well quit now, it's hopeless. Blind faith does indeed have it's place, > and it even has a place in learning. Imitation is an excellent way to > begin learning, especially with something as complex as diving, where, > like trades, it simply CAN'T be learned all at once. It takes time, > period. So how does one survive the first day on the job site, or the > first 300 dives? Yup. Blind faith, and a well picked teacher. Well, my reference to sunday school was merely meant to illustrate that what I took on as blind faith there has turned out to be nothing more than the shared illusions of a priest and his herd. This was a man who claimed that the theory of evolution was the workings of the devil and made many fantastic claims, all in the name of creationism. Had I not questioned the wisdom of his words (and he was indeed considered an "expert" in his field), I'd be locked up being sexually repressed and dreaming of a space pixie. This does not subtract anything from your points, however. I'd be a fool to argue that faith to some degree isn't involved. I feel that it's a question of evidential, not blind, faith. > No one's going to debate you, man. The people here are all pretty well > set in their views on gear, and none of them care if you share their > views or not. Once you've *LEARNED*, and become expert in the trade, we > might have something to talk about. Once you've become an expert diver, > and designed gear that exceeds that put out by George, Bill, and company, > they might listen to what you have to say, and even discuss it with you. > But unless your expertise on their gear equals theirs, you don't stand a > chance. While I can try to live up to living legends, it's quite certain that I will never come even close to them in terms of skill, experience and knowledge. Neither will 99,99% of all tech divers.It appears that I've presented myself and my views in an unfortunate way. I wouldn't dream of questioning their authority which we all know is earned by hard work and years of dedication. my mistake was using the word "debate" instead of "discuss", and I fear even that word is too strong. > The closest you're going to get to debate is to be rediculed for taking a > stance contrary to the Doing It Right standard, and trying to debate it, > while the DIR crowd takes pot shots at you. The track record and the logic behind the DIR standard made a believer out of me from the first time I encountered it. Taking a stance contrary to it would be placing myself in the position of the sunday school priest mentioned above. > They're not going to debate > you, they're going to ridicule you. (Tell him, Aaron. Tell him if any of > the replies you've received have even resembled rational discussion.) > > And you can't tell the difference. You think that because they're not > debating you, that either they don't know what they're talking about, > your case has merit, or both. Like you just discovered a brand new > resource, called OMS, that none of them have noticed before. I can tell you that I understand this perfectly well, since the very same happens in alt.atheism when a fundamentalist uses version 2321 of Pascal's wager or the like. I'm not presumptuous and my ego does not allow me to behave like you've just described. > They're not debating you simply because it's more fun not to. The louder > you holler, the more fun it is. Ask Mike. He's so blind, they've even > named a thread after him, and he still doesn't get it. > Doesn't sound very productive to me, but it's your account, your nickel, > and your time... > > Getting information on virtually any subject connected with decompression > diving out of the WKPP crowd is simple, rewarding, and informative. I've > tried to show you clowns why you're not getting what you want, > (explanations and information), and you want to debate it with me. I have no intention of debating this, and the WKPP has been more than generous when it comes to sharing what they've learned through experimenting and taking risks. Again, any and all information that they want to share with me is deeply appreciated. This somehow turned into an us vs them thing, to my horror. I have never disagreed with the WKPP people, on the contrary, what little I know is directly derived from them. > Guess what? I have a secret for you. > > You'll figure it out, I'm sure. Yep. > "C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?" > -First Sergeant Dan Daley > "Who wants to live forever?" > -Freddie Mercury > "I swear, I'm going to live forever" > -Jon Bon Jovi -- Claus Lisberg, Founder of PSWEH (Poor Students With Expensive Hobbies) Nirfur prophet #1, a.a atheist #1116 "A casual stroll through an asylum will show that faith proves nothing." - F. Nietzsche -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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