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Steve, how rude is three deaths in one week? How rude is fifteen dead
instructors in eighteen months. How rude is the continuous uniterrupted
flow of misinfomration, stupidity, and dangerous practices that are
getting these people killed? 

Like you say, you are new, and you do not know that this is all
emamating from a few really, really stupid people who are able to
influence our whole sport.

You go do a few recoveries, you go to court to get people declared dead
while their wives sit their crying, you talk to the families of the
victims, the fathers of the dead sons with a promising full life ahead
of them, you rid earound on a boat all day with the dead bodies and the
cops, you talk to the Coast Guard, etc, and then you can kiss my ass.

It is the atittute of tolerance of dive shop monkeeism - the act of
learning a dangerous sport from the equivalent of a roofer, that will
get clowns like you killed. This is a serious sport, and it is being
taught by primates who could not make a good batch of fries or a Double
Whopper without screwing it up. 

There is nothing new in any of this, except that fifty years of polite
by the likes of Jaques Cousteau and many others has not worked nearly as
well as publicly humiliting the usual suspects. Now they are aftraid to
screw up, since their insurance agents are wathing closely. Anyway to
slow these mongoloids down is fine with me.


Steve Orrell wrote:
> 
> First of all let me set the scene; I'm a nobody, a tiny weeny little baby
> diver, quite new to the sport.... someone who you'll delight in calling a
> "stroke". One thing that I do know is that I am willing to learn and have a
> very open mind. I subscribe to this list to learn; nothing more.
> 
> I know that in my writing this I add my name to a long, and much more
> distinguished list and I have no doubt whatsoever that no notice whatsoever
> will be taken of my comments.
> 
> Now let me go on.
> 
> My apologies to Katherine because I'm fairly sure that she is indeed not the
> author of this piece, but why the true author refuses to acknowledge their
> work is beyond me. Rudeness is the reason that I would suggest.
> 
> Hi Katherine V. Irvine
> 
> On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:42:14 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> > The guy started with 30% helium on his first dive and then blew air on
> > it, you blithering idiot. He died of terminal stupidity, like most of
> > you probaly will. You guys are so freaking stupid that it amazes me when
> > you live through a dive.
> 
> > Learn to do it right or stay out of the water. You idiots are cutting
> > our throats along with yours. The slobbery, bullshit mixes, bozonic tank
> > markings and the ridiculous convoluted stroke gear and thinking is
> > directly responsible for the deaths.
> 
> Has it ever crossed your mind that you are as equally culpable in this by
> your steadfast refusal to find a more successful means of educating those of
> us who are _wanting_ to learn?   (Bearing in mind how widely geographically
> distributed the readers of this list are and are thus unable to get hands-on
> exposure from others more skillful than ourselves.)
> 
> I would suggest that I am of the same mindset as a lot of people in that if
> someone with your degree of knowledge and experience stands in front of me
> and does their level best to do no more than belittle me then I will stand
> face-on to you and ask "What gives you the right to be so witheringly
> dismissive and demeaning?". In my book you have zero, I'll say that again
> ZERO credibility and command ZERO respect; your phrase for me is undoubtedly
> "stroke", my phrase for you is "absolute and utter wanker".
> 
> If you were not so wrapped up in gilding your own ego then it would be the
> easiest thing in the world for you to reverse the carnage you describe by
> disseminating your knowledge and skills. Others with the same level of
> knowledge and skill are willing to do this, why not you?
> 
> Is it that you consider this type of action beneath you? I think not
> otherwise you would not post so frequently expressing your exasperation.
> 
> I for one am more than willing to learn, to improve my diving knowledge and
> abilities and this I will continue to do by listening to others and asking
> questions, no matter how ridiculous these might seem to those more
> experienced than myself. Yet in this I refuse to be spoken to as a piece of
> dog dirt on the bottom of a shoe.
> 
> Are you willing to let me benefit from your experience without resorting to
> nothing but insult and reliance on others to pass on their own knowledge?
> 
> The old "hard man / soft man" approach beloved of TV police interrogations
> should have no place where education is the issue, when real peoples' lives
> could be at stake.
> 
> > Death by stupidity. You guys have that one mastered. And then you try to
> > cover it up and argue about it: STUPIDITY.
> 
> I'm sure Forrest Gump would have said "Stupid is as stupid does" and you, my
> friend, are stupid enough to think you can educate by brow-beating into
> submission.
> 
> Think again, please, for the good of us all.
> 
> Steve...


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