Tom I have tried self rescue in the event of a BC failure. With 104's and 
a steel stage the drysuit had no problem with getting me off the bottom. 
I also tried no suit, no BC and my scooter could get me up the line with 
no problem.

I notice you mention a "redundant BC" I know that in the good old days 
some guys would use 2 standard wings stacked, which to me is a far more 
practicable option than the false security stuperwings provide, at least 
you would have a truly redundant system and not a half-assed one. For the 
truly paranoid you would think that you would have a small bottle, argon 
sized, to make sure you had up gas and would not jepordize your back gas.

Another idea is to have a line connecting you to the surface at all times 
like an ice diver. Just give a couple of yanks and up you go. By God you 
would get to the surface then. But the surface crew could be a bunch of 
no-good lolly-gaggers, drinking beer and nodding off and stuff, then 
you'd be screwed! But then you could kind of whip the rope around and 
wrap the rope around the prop. Then when the drunken bastards try to 
leave without you, the shaft would wind you right up off the bottom! And 
there would be hell to pay once you got to the surface, oooooh yes... The 
first thing I'd do is hire Jammers lawyer and sue the goddamn wings 
company, then I'd stalk the owners family like like that crazy dude in, 
uh, that movie, Cape Fear!

 Jim

On 7/16/98 8:06 PM Tom Mount wrote:

>
>----
>
>
>I read over and over about the anti steel tanks on this list when diving 
>wet. Yet I rarely see anyone in the ocean diving deep on Aluminum 
>cylinders. Including me I use the OMS double 85's and love them. If fact 
>Aluminum 80's would be my last choice of diving cylinders.
> 
>How many people on this list have dived either OMS double 98's (not 
>pressed steel 95's) or OMS 85's. Those of you who have most likely can 
>report that you can dive them even in event of BC failure. I have 
>practiced this with both and have no problem with a 3 mil wet suit. (using 
>Al 40's for stages) 
> 
>In fresh water with a 3 mil suit and no cylinders or other gear I can lay 
>on the bottom of a pool, so you can say I'm negative buoyant , Yet 
>swimming these cylinders is doable, With steel 45's  it would be difficult 
>and I would definitely recommend a backup BC inthis event.
> 
>On the subject of redundant BC's if a failure occurs with any tank 
>configuration double 80's or whatever the second  BC may save your life or 
>the life of a buddy who has had a BC failure. So although I do not always 
>use a second BC when diving wet I certainly support the logic behind its 
>use. For an instructor who must make a rescue it could prove to be a 
>valuable asset.
> 
>I see discussions on using the lift bag as a redundant BC , on ascent or 
>on the bottom it will work , but how about during a rapid descent in  deep 
>water, how easily will you pull out the bag hook it up to a reel and 
>deploy the lift bag, some of you should attempt to practice this during a 
>rapid descent and see how well it works, then come back and give you views 
>on it s use as a reliable backup BC.  plus what if the reel jams or the 
>lift bag dumps, what is the reliability factor in this method? 
> 
> Also have a buddy get totally negative and simulate a rescue using just 
>your BC or a lift bag. I plan to experiment with this some myself, due to 
>a conservation I had with one of our instructors this morning. Remember 
>this has to be doable at a high rate of descent trying to manage yourself 
>and your buddy. Also factor in that you are fully negative at first in 
>order to catch the descending diver. So :\
>1. Catch the buddy
>2. Make contact
>3. Stabilize buoyancy
>4. Start ascent
>5. on the surface remain stable
>Note! check your gas consumption during this drill. 
> 
>I suggest we all go out and experiment with this before drawing 
>conclusions about what does or does not work. and what works under what 
>circumstance?
> 
>Note this is not a brands or no brands post this is a lets see what really 
>works post and then for those who are willing to do the practices a 
>discussion of the results. Any takers??
> 
>Second practice drill while using continuos webbing (no quick releases) 
>have a buddy simulate being unconsciousness , while in doubles and two 
>stages. Remove the stages, and doubles on the surface as well as your own 
>as in making a real life rescue. To make this more real simulate mouth to 
>mouth as you are doing it.,
> 
>Those of you who have QD's should also practice this skill.
> 
>This is a good basic buddy rescue skill and we should all remain 
>proficient in it.
> 
>You should also time your results and bear in mind that if the diver has 
>no pulse  or it is an AGE, the time this is accomplished in is critical.
> 
>The above skill is required in IANTD trimix courses now adays so I have 
>some knowledge of how well it works in both applications. 
> 
>Remember try these first and then talk about it from experience instead of 
>arm chair theory
> 
>Tom
>Tom
>


 -------------------------------------------------------------------
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