Don

Thanks for your reasonable reply. But you really ought to give a hogarth 
rig a try sometime, I think you will be pleasantly surprised, I sure was.

 Jim

On 7/16/98 10:33 AM DEnig@ao*.co* wrote:

>In a previous post Jim writes:
>
><<Will one of you bonage aficiandos please explain to me again what
exactly 
><<wonderful thing these POS do to offset the complexity, fear and doubt 
><<that they cause?>>
>
>Well Jim, I don't find my OMS wings to cause me (nor others I know that have
>and use them) any fear nor doubt. Fear of what? Doubt about what? I'm not
>afraid they will fail me, I'm not afraid they won't give me lift, I'm not
>afraid they will kill me. What fear is it you refer to? As to complexity?,
>well maybe I'm missing something here. Granted they have an additional strap
>(crotch strap) that the vest style BC I was using didn't have, they have a 
>few
>extra D rings, integrated weights, what you refer to as "bungee cord", some
>extra padding and pockets but, they inflate and deflate just like the vest
>style BC I was using and I haven't found them to be "complex" to either
>operate or set up. So I guess (in my case at least) there is nothing to
>offset.
>
><<It looks like you all have agreed that the setup of the bondage, the
hose 
><<storage and routing, training, maintenance of the overpressure valves
are 
><<extremely critical to keep these from killing you. What justifies
this?>>
>
>Well lets see. I give mine the same maintenence that I would give any BC. I
>route my hoses the same way that I did with the vest style BC. As with any 
>new
>piece of gear, I practiced with it in a known environment first. I set up my
>"bungee cords" in such a manner as to give me a slight heads up orientation
>when horizontal (something I couldn't do with the vest style BC). Other than
>just the one item (bungee set up) nothing else was different than any 
>other BC
>so therefor, nothing "extremely critical" had to be done to keep them from
>killing me.
>
><<So you have 2 bladders? How would you puncture one of them, by ripping 
><<the outer shell, correct? If the outer shell is ripped, what exactly 
><<keeps the other bladder contained?>>
>
>Got 1 bladder. I got the OMS IQ 100# single bladder. If the outer shell gets
>ripped, it may still be the one thing that prevents the bladder from also
>being ripped. With the cords in place (the cords by the way are sort of an
>option you don't have to install if you don't want) my bladder stays 
>tucked in
>closer and I'm more apt to bang my cylinders before anything reaches it.
>
><<How many of you have had standard wing failures which drove you to
using 
><<bondage wings? What was the nature of the failure and how do bondage 
><<wings mitigate that failure point?>>
>
>Never had a wing failure so I don't know first hand about them nor the 
>failure
>points.
>
><<And how many were talked into these by a diveshop salesman or
instructor?>>
>
>Well, I was talked into them by my friend. Yes he is an instructor. I did 
>have
>an opportunity to try some different styles. My friend has been diving 
>longer,
>has had the opportunity to try many styles of wings (he does own a dive shop)
>and he has figured out thru use and evaluation, what works better for the 
>type
>of diving he does.
>I was able to shortcut the buy it, use it, dump it and buy something else
>route. 
>
><<And how many bought these things because you wanted to look cool, just 
><<like the other bondage technecule divers?>>
>
>I learned a long time ago that buying things to look "cool" doesn't cut it at
>all. Don't care what people think about my gear. Bottom line is, it works for
>me, it ain't broke so no need to fix it. My life depends on my gear so I
>maintain it, I train with it and if I'm not comfortable with it I won't use
>it. I follow that both in diving and in my profession. Besides, if I want to
>look "cool" I'll hang around the donut shop with mirrored sunglasses and a
>coffee cup in one hand, ticket book in the other.  :-)
>
><<How many of you are just stubborn brick-heads who are keeping their 
><<stupid bondage wings just out of mulish principle?>>
>
>I almost said guilty, guilty, guilty. But I'm really not stubborn. If
>something that I think is better comes along, I'll get it. I am rather open
>minded. If something is proven to me, I'll accept it but if it isn't proven,
>then I won't accept it.
>
><<How many of you have tried standard wings and rejected them for the 
><<bondage? What was the reason for this rejection, really?>>
>
>In part,I will readily admit, price. I could get the OMS for less. But also I
>found them a bit more stable for me and I liked being able to adjust my
>orientation head slightly up, down or level. Plus, I found that they held the
>bladder in a bit closer so that the cylinder gave them a bit of protection
>(and in single cylinder application they don't wrap around the cylinder) and
>faster air evacuation. And finally ( a big consideration for me) I found them
>more comfortable on my shoulders and put less strain on my back and neck.
>Since I have been injured a time or two over the course of my career, comfort
>and less strain on my neck and back were prime considerations for me so long
>as safety wasn't an issue (which it isn't).
>
><<How do you explain the constant stream of bondage wings for sale on
this 
><<and the cavers list? They are by far and away the most popular item
for 
><<sale on these lists.>>
>
>Can't explain it. Hype? Paranoia? Marketing stratagy? Who knows for sure? If
>people are really that eager to dump them I may buy another. But guarentee
>that I won't pay what they are asking. If "they" think it's junk, I'd be
>willing to give them 10 cents on the dollar (depending on condition) and they
>can pay the shipping. 
>
><<Lets get to the bottom of this issue once and for all.
>
> <<Jim>>
>
>Sure, lets get to the bottom of it. But lets not blame them for deaths when
>they may not have even been a factor. So many things can go wrong. Sometimes,
>when a diver dies, it is not any one thing that kills them but rather a
>combination of events that individually would not have been fatal but
>collectively were. And if wings were one of the events involved, was it
>because they were "bondage" style, dual bladder, one particular brand,
>suffered a maintenence related failure or because they were brand new to the
>diver and being used for the first time along with other new items and/or
>training. 
>I was always taught that if I added new gear / equipment, add only one thing
>at a time and try it out in a more confined / familier area and don't make 
>any
>other changes or additions until I was comfortable with what I had just
>changed. Guess you could say it's a common sense thing. Sadly, common 
>sense is
>none to common lately.
>Well, I've put my 2 cents in (for what it's worth) and if there are replys,
>maybe I will learn something. That's why I first subscribed to techdiver. To
>learn. So far, it hasn't really lived up to my expectations but who knows?
>Maybe someday it shall.
>Dan
>********************************************
>Press hard, it's 5 copies..............
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