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At 02:38 PM 24/05/1998 -0700, M.T. Boen wrote: >I have known John now for about a year and, have taken both Nitrox and wreck >penetration courses from him and, am currently a student of his taking >Advanced Nitrox and Deep Air. While to some of you this might seem like >fairly mundane stuff (140fsw), I have found it extremely challenging. Now >having said this, let me tell you a little about my self; I have been diving >for about 10 years now and I hold certs from PADI, (Divemaster) NAUI, (Wreck >Diver) and IANDT (EANx Overhead Environment and EAN). Hi M.T. Boen. Don't you love them courses. And the great thing about IANTD is there's plenty more where those came from. >I also have close to >1000 dives, all of which have been done locally. I mention all of these >things so that you have a feel for where I am coming from. One of the things >that I have noticed from some of these posts regarding the tragedy in >Florida, is that everyone is placing the blame for the death of this student >on the Instructor; while the Instructor is responsible for his/her students, >Isn't the ultimate decision to do the dive or not to do the dive the >students? Of course, you being a bit of a courseophile helps explain your highly developed fondness for IANTD instructors, and your inability to accept the fact that, in the latest tragedy, the IANTD instructor fucked up totally and completely. I'll explain how. All through the course, the intructor should have been watching his student's every gas switch LIKE A HAWK. And when she went onto the wrong deco reg, he should have reached over, unclipped the correct one, handed it to her and made sure she switched over INSTANTLY. So where the fuck was he when he should have been doing his job? That he not only missed the fatal switch, but failed to catch it later when she was clearly in trouble only underlines the enormity of his incompetence and/or carelessness. That she should have made this error in the first place points squarely at the TOTAL INADEQUACY of IANTD's bottle marking recommendations and requirements. In fact, by solving only the wrong problem, those regulations ensured she wouldn't know for sure what gas was in the cylinder she was breathing from except by locating and studying a tiny, hand-written tag. >From what I have read, this lady was an experienced diver, and had >been around a lot of different types of divers and instructors. With this in >mind, would it have been unreasonable for this student to: A: Know that she >might be getting into something that she was not ready or prepared for or B: >Know that this Instructor was a schmuck?. I have been around a great deal of >Instructors and I have a very good feel as to which ones are good and which >ones are Bozos which, I avoid like the Plague. Ironically, this could well be what most dead students believed. You must understand that peer pressure puts people into strange and overpowering situations. No-one is immune. Rob Palmer got sucked into doing deep air dives with a boatload of dick-head stroke instructors and died. He's the last person you would expect to succumb to peer pressure. A student facing a misguided instructor stands almost no chance at all. And don't forget the multiplicity of IANTD courses encourages IANTD instructors to persuade and sell. I mean, not all of us are courseophiles. Most of us would need some convincing to take six courses to reach a standard that other agencies can take us to with three. > John Walker is one of the >best Instructors that I have the opportunity to train with; he is very >safety conscious and very blunt about things that can go wrong if you screw >up or don't pay attention to what's going on around you. But, I have always >believed that I (the diver), not the Instructor have the ultimate decision >as to if I get in the water or not, if the equipment is not working >properly, or I don't feel comfortable, I don't go in. Period. This is John Walker the IANTD instructor who pops up now and again to try to discredit the people who carried out the body recovery, as per his posts below, right? rgds billyw >-----Original Message----- >From: RLatulip <RLatulip@ao*.co*> >To: techdive@ea*.ne* <techdive@ea*.ne*> >Cc: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>; techdiver@aquanaut.com ><techdiver@aquanaut.com> >Date: Sunday, May 24, 1998 9:06 PM >Subject: Re: Instructors for "tech" agencies > > >>In a message dated 5/24/1998 12:42:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >>Instructor John writes: >> >>> Whitney, have you ever been certified by a technical agency? If not, >>> were did you learn how to dive caves and mix? If so, which agencies >> >>How does Exley and Turner sound to you. >> >>> If one is to fear gas, deco and what ever the hell hoovery is (must be >>> one of thoughs country terms) why would they want to involve themselves >>> in gas, deco and hoovery? >> >>Fear of deco means you are so afraid of breaking you deco requirements that >>you would rather let you dive buddy drown than take a bend hit. >> >>>I could of sworn that the dive was terminated due to problems that >>>Jane was having. >> >>Interesting I heard the conditions were shit so they turn the dive. >> >> >>>If a new dry suit is something that I should not dive with, than how >>>long should I wait before I do? I personally do not care for BONDAGE >>>wings but, are you sure that the one's Jane was diving with as well as >>> the inflator were inoperatable? >> >>I believe the point here is that you don't stick a student on her first >Trimix >>dive in gear that she is not familiar with. Lets see, never in a dry suit >>before, never been to that depth before, nerver on trimx before (with multi >>deco bottles to handle), diving a comm unit rated for almost a1/3 the >depth. >> >>> HUMMMM, how did the stuffed hose play a part in this? >> >>In the death itself probably nothing, but if I am having trouble breathing >I >>don't want to come up to my buddy and unwrap his hose first. I will just >take >>the reg in his mouth out of necessity. If he is already on the long hose >all >>he has to do his drop his head and breath. There is not a fight over a reg >>with two' + of hose and everybody is happy. >> >>> Was the new dry suit to small?(i.e. not anough lift) >> >>I have yet to see an unconscious person inflate their own gear. >> >> >> >>>Why did you not refill your tanks, was it the cost? Jane was'nt going >>> anywhere. This would seem by many to be alittle careless in >>> itself. ( Oh! sorry. Im speaking for others, like Dan >>> does). >> >>Considering what you are responding to this is begging the question. >>Obviously they are well aware of their breathing rate and what they will >use. >>Can you say the same???? >> >>> If Dan only used half of an 80, was that a travel gas or a bottom gas. >>> If it was a bottom gas, how come he only had an 80, and why is'nt he >>> running his botton gas in his doubles? >> >> >>Again begging the question!!! He had a deco stage as well. >> >>> That is amazing. You guys should start your own Technical training >>> agency. Maybe start by slamming all the others and it may make it easier >>> for you to get into the market. What do you say? >> >>I believe that this is in the process and will be called G.U.E. Although >the >>thought is not on market share but increased dive safety. As for slamming >I >>guess it is better if no one speaks out when they feel people are dying >>needlessly. >> >>> Well Whitney, it is amazing that you know so much about this accident. >>> We have alot of accidents out here in So. Cal.(rarely technical) and >>> I'll tell you that recieving such information (all information) about >>> them such as you have with Janes accident is very timely unless you have >>> an inside. And if you do have a inside and speak to much about it to >>> fast, certain people (folks) speak meanly to you (the officials). >> >>Dah do you fall out of bed this morning??? Did you read the last name??? >Who >>the hell do you think did Janes body recovery!!! >> >>> Last question(s), why are you as well as other team members so >>> concerned with this accident anyhow? Your team is obviously not >>> promoting technical education and hazes anyone other than WKPP members >>> for having fun by way of technical dives and has no obligation to >>> retrieve bodies. >> >>They were called in to do the body recovery!!! I guess that gives them the >>right to be involved! The point is not that indivduals are doing these >kind >>of dives but that they are doing them in such a way as to beg an accident. >> >>First 300' ft dive (probably the first over 200'), first time switching >deco >>tanks out, fist time on trimix, first time to this depth with a comm unit. >> >>You tell me is this how you teach your students? >> >> >> >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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