Andrew,

I think the real point is being avoided so far in this discussion..... The
real issue is, hundreds, if not thousands of students, have been trained
with  catastrophically incorrect technical diving procedures...many  have
died already as a result of this, and many others are faced with a very real
likelihood that they will die as result of this poor procedure base and
incorrect understanding, in the next year.  They will die deaths which would
have been avoided with proper training.

 Jane dodged many bullets during her last dive with her IANTD instructor
trainer, there to "help" her on her last dive.  This "instructor",   stacked
the odds against her, piling up one stupidity after another, until finally,
she succumbed to the onslaught, of what will hopefully be considered
criminally negligent homicide.

Derrick is NOT the only DR. of Death in the IANTD instructor ranks. Some
hide it better than others----not offering as many stupidities, but still
holding on to the big ones, the ones that will absolutely kill someone in
the end.
Whether its the 80/20 deco gas assisted suicide, or the  "I'll be your
buddy, unless you have a problem---then your on your own" routine like
Derrick and many others practice, or the "drift dive to nowhere without a
surface float or  safety diver"....one way or another, these guys will kill.
There is no law strong enough to save you.

Andrew, a student in a trimix course can be fooled in dozens of areas, as to
what will be safe, and what may very well kill them. Maybe some  students in
Jane's place, would have put the brakes on in this dive, but Derrick would
most likely have had so may bullets left, that death would not be cheated
for too much longer.  In Jane's defense, her fitness was far above the
average IANTD student or instructor, and this helped her to dodge the many
bullets she managed to escape.
The responsibility CAN NOT lie on the student, it MUST lie on the negligent
instructors, and on the weak and narrow shoulders of Tom Mount, who should
know better, but who prefers to believe his own hype over the much safer
procedures George Irvine, Bill Mee, and Robert Carmichael  have been trying
to instill in him over the last few years--- but to no avail. Now it HAS to
be time for the legal system to take a shot, as logic and moral fiber have
lost out .

Or maybe we should just make up a list we can begin adding to, of
"instructors" who do not deserve the title, and who we should kick off any
boat we happen to see them attempt to board with students.  I can think of a
couple right now I would love to kick off of a boat, a parking lot, or
anywhere I can find an excuse to exact a small measure of retribution in the
name of the people whose lives they have taken.
Dan Volker



-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Drapp <andrew@ce*.co*.jp*>
To: susan m. innes <premier@ma*.ac*.ne*>
Cc: cavers@ca*.co* <cavers@ca*.co*>; techdiver@aquanaut.com
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: student responsibility



>
>On Thu, 14 May 1998, susan m. innes wrote:
>
>> Students of trimix classes have very few sources to make themselves
>> knowledgeable of all the dangers out there and what is safe and unsafe.
For
>> ex. IF ( a big if) a student was on techdiver or cavers the many opposing
>> opinions posted would certainly confuse him or her.  The vast majority do
>> not even know the newsgroups exist prior to being involved.
>>
>> This post could go on and on listing reasons it is absurd to require your
>> students to know what is safe and unsafe diving and training before they
>> even take the class. If you are taking a chemistry class in college and
the
>> professor says mix y and z and you blow up;  are you at fault for not
>> knowing chemistry BEFORE you've even taken the class?
>
>1.  I think you misunderstand the main point.  I don't think anyone is
>suggesting that students should be _required_ to know that an instructor
>is safe or not, and furthermore noone is suggesting that students should
>have the _liability_ for choosing a poor instructor.  What people are
>suggesting is that students morally have an obligation to check out their
>instructor first.  This moral obligation in no way translates to a leagal
>one.
>
>2.  I think it is reasonable to expect a student to know basic safe
>practices or not when signing up for a trimix course.  They should already
>have a lot of experience and should already be comfortable in the water
>diving doubles and deco diving.  Idealy speaking, at the basic level,
>moving up to trimix should be nothing more than learning some new theory.
>The skills should already be there.  Of course, practicaly speaking, this
>is rarely the case.  But, as a mater of point, I was/am one of the
>students you referred to above.  I am not yet trimix certified.  A couple
>of months ago, I was signed up for a trimix course.  After meeting with
>the instructor and discussing his philosophies and views, I droped out of
>the course.  From what I had learned here, elsewhere, and just common
>sense, I knew that he was an unsafe instructor.  It is possible, and it
>should be encouraged for students to question their instructors.
>
>Regards,
>
>Andrew Drapp
>
>
>--
>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>

--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]