05/05/98

Will-

  Remember when you were new to the "sport" of diving and relying on the
advise of persons more experienced than yourself (instructors, dive center
employees and your friends)?  How much did you understand about the dive
"industry" (the relationships between instructors, certifying agencies, dive
retailers, diving equipment manufacturers and suppliers, equipment quality
and profit margins)?  How much did you understand about the safety issues?
More importantly, how much does the average person to whom a product such as
this will be "marketed" understand about those issues?  How likely is it
that person will be able to understand and properly care for a product such
as this?

  Assume the best possible case, an ethical/compassionate/safety conscious
person (someone like yourself) looking out for the neophyte's best interests
(safety, $).  Does a product such as this product provide good value for the
investment ($430 for the 13cuft model) for a neophyte?  I don't believe so.
The neophyte would better spend his/her time and money to figure out whether
diving is really all it was cracked up to be for him/her; and, if so, what
type of diving he or she plans do, and with what frequency. Furthermore, I
submit that if a redundant air source turns out to be the right choice for
that person, a simple pony bottle/bracket/regulator configuration is more
flexible, maintainable, portable and rugged, less complex, less likely to
fail, more likely to retain some value should the neophyte decide to get out
of the sport in three or four years, and more likely to retain some value
should the neophyte become a more advanced diver.  Would you or anybody else
purchase a product such as this on the after market?

And I agree with:

Okay, I've said all this enough times. I agree, this is
getting old, and I think I'll retire from the discussion.

Jan: honestly, good luck. You have the guts to try making
a go in a consumer market, and I admire that. I just don't
like this product.

Bill Schmoldt





	  



> ----------
> From: 	William M. Smithers[SMTP:will@tr*.co*]
> Sent: 	Monday, May 04, 1998 11:35 PM
> To: 	Schmoldt, William C (Bill), NPG  NCIO
> Cc: 	'jantroup@em*.ms*.co*'; 'SHP WRK'; 'techdiver@aquanaut.com'
> Subject: 	RE: Just when you thought
> 
> 
> On Mon, 4 May 1998, Schmoldt, William C (Bill), NPG NCIO wrote:
> 
> > (a terminology I dislike) since 1984, and a former dive center owner and
> > new diver counselor, I too think this piece of equipment is foolish.
> > The criticisms you are getting are (for the most part) well founded!
> > 
> > Shame on you Jan!  Double shame on any manufacturers rep, dive center
> > owner, or experienced diver who ever recommends or sells this thing!
> > Newbies beware!!!
> > 
> > The 'techdiver' list (which to this point in time has shown me very
> > little of value) will have served a very useful purpose if it ridicules
> > this abomination into oblivion.
> >
> 
> OK, wait a minute.  First of all, this thread is getting old.
> Secondly, I wish a couple of people out there would resist
> the temptation to lemming themselves and actually think this through.
> 
> In essence, what is this thing?
> 
> From what I can tell (forgetting bottle size - they'll sell
> you whatever size bottle you like) it is simply a tank
> valve integrated with a first stage, along with an
> optional transfill whip, only the whip won't cost you
> $100+ like a real transfill whip would.
> 
> Last time I checked, this setup has exactly the same
> number of failure points as a classic pony w/first and
> second stage - one more failure point in the transfill
> whip, and one less failure point in the yoke/DIN to 
> first stage O-ring (forgetting the tank valve itself).  
> If you opt to not have the HP hose connected all the time, 
> then you are actually ahead of the game vs. a pony, when it 
> comes to failure points.  And as a recreational diver,
> you don't have to remember to turn it on before the dive.
> 
> So exactly what is all the bitching about?  This is
> clearly not a product aimed at technical divers, any
> more than the whole "pony" concept is appropriate 
> for technical diving.  And as a recreational concept,
> it sure as hell beats out the Spare Air as something
> that's worthwhile.
> 
> -Will
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > Bill Schmoldt
> > 
> > 
> > >----------
> > >From: 	SHP WRK[SMTP:SHPWRK@ao*.co*]
> > >Sent: 	Sunday, May 03, 1998 1:14 PM
> > >To: 	jantroup@em*.ms*.co*
> > >Cc: 	techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > >Subject: 	Re: Just when you thought
> > >
> > >dear mr. troup,
> > >
> > >i am the person that person that posted this thread to the net.
> > >i did so because in my 35 years in the scuba industry, i have never
> seen a
> > >more complicated device do nothing.
> > >i have seen it at 3 different scuba shows and talked to you at two.
> > >at each of the two you spent 15 mins. telling me how great this device
> is.
> > >you almost made it sound like the "burning bush" told you to make and
> sell
> > >it.
> > >bull.
> > >if you want to design and make your toys go ahead, make them and use
> them for
> > >YOURSELF.
> > >
> > >DONT PEDDLE SNAKE OIL TO THE UNSUSPECTING NEOPHITE.
> > >see, the reason we here on t/d are beating you up is simple.
> > >WE DO NOT (hopefully) FALL INTO THE NEOPHITE CATAGORY.
> > >thus, through logical deduction, we have arrive to the conclusion.
> > >
> > >YOUR DEVICE IS:
> > >WORTHLESS
> > >DANGEROUS
> > >SELF SERVING
> > >ACTUALLY FUNNY(to me)
> > >
> > >and on top of all,
> > >the number of hoses border on pure MOCKERY.
> > >this is my 4th post in greater than 4 years on this list,
> > >so, to carify to you, list maint. is NOT my job.
> > >my job is SPEC'g SCUBA EQUIP for mission related tasks.
> > >this i do for a living and only this.
> > >i'm not a doctor turned scuba diver turned designer /engineer.
> > >do not take this post harshly, just take that junk off the market, b/4
> some
> > >young
> > >newwbe loses his life proving we were right.
> > >
> > >sorry list for the long post.wont happen again.
> > >
> > >shkwrk [(w/30cf pony and 1 hose)((short))]
> > >--
> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > 
> 
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