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dan,
while i & most of the people who have been responding to you on this issue
happen to agree with the general direction of your argument, non of us agree
with you conclusion.
i am not going to get into the physiological details with you but reread your
answer to
Capt Zero below. do you notice that all of your conclusions need to be or can
be or would be proved IF we completed certain types of testing??
it would seem to me (& i have heard the fat argument ever since i started
diving) that this stuff should have been tested up the kazoo & proven without
a doubt at this point. on the surface the "common sense" tells us that you
should be right (but then it was "common sense " that told us that the world
was flat & that we were the center of the universe).
i suspect that if we took a few sedentary skinny guys or girls as well as a
few fat ones that exercise your results might suprise you.
you keep on evoking the extremes to justify your arguments, but not all tech
diving is done to the levels that you refer to. lets face it the kind &
quality of diving that george & the wkkp does is quite the edge. they should
be & have to be in the phyisical conditions they are to succeed at the tasks
that they set for themselves. most of the tech diving comunity does not do ten
to twelve hour (or more) dives. some of the tech dives that are over & done
with within an hour & a half to three hours in the water.
while "good " conditioning can't hurt you some of us are questioning the need
to "legislate" body shapes as being a requirement to tech dive.
i feel that the current "rules" of all of the agencies can easily be enforced
that would achieve what we both want. (ie; divers that are capable of
handeling the equipment,conditions & emergencies).
i submit to you that most all of the deaths & accidents that occur are due to
diver inexperience & failure to follow thier own rules of protocol.
i will spare everyone the pain of going over a bunch of deaths to prove the
point just look at the list yourself.
hank
In a message dated 98-03-06 09:31:12 EST, you write:
<< There are two main problems with your model. The greater issue in
Helium
and
Nitrogen exchange will be offgassing. You seem to think that inert gas will
be absorbed at a set rate, regardless how much gradient is applied to a
given volume of blood. I'm saying( and the need to use the extremes in tech
and caving are necessary to illustrate the point) someone like George with a
VO2 max value in the high 70 ml/kg of body weight, will be able to circulate
his entire volume of blood, perhaps 4 times through his body, in the same
time unit the extremely fat and sedentary diver ( say with 10ml/kg VO2max)
will pump his entire volume of blood one time. As you are well aware, the
gradient each is exposed to is the same, but the duration of the gradient
being exposed to exchange potential at the alveoli, is 4 times larger for
someone like George , in this example. Neither will use a max heart rate
durring off-gassing, but easy comfortable exertion for George will create 4
times the exposure of his blood to offgassing gradient, as it will for the
obese diver. The issue of surface pressure and the "Tour" needs to be
looked at as the ability of your body to send every blood cell all the way
around the body, in order for the blood cells to facillitate gas
exchange---clearly the faster they can do this, the more "fit" the
indivdiual. The difference at depth is that the blood cells are not the
primary "movers" of inert gas. It is the liquid of the blood that now
transports the helium and nitrogen, but its exchange rate will still be
based on how quickly the fluid can make a full circuit around the body, and
how much gradient will be acting on it as it returns to the alveoli.
The CO2 issue "DOES" involve the redblood cells and the more customary use
of VO2 max as a gas exchange rate unit, is an even better "fit". This is
one issue we will be able to totally prove out in simulated chamber runs,
with each subject pedalling a bike ergometer to incapacitation, at a
simulated depth of 250 or 300 feet. I am very confident we will see huge
differences in the amount of unit work ( expressed in Watts) which the high
VO2 max divers will perform prior to onset of "system shutdown" , compared
to the low VO2 max divers, who are typically obese and sedentary. We can
then equate the wattage levels each can produce in the simulations, with the
energy expenditures necessary to do simple tasks such as: to lift an anchor;
to swim and pull yourself briefly upcurrent;, etc.
Regards,
Dan
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From: "Dan Volker" <dlv@ga*.ne*>
To: "CAPTZEROOO" <CAPTZEROOO@ao*.co*>, <tae@pe*.ne*>,
<Wahoo2001@ao*.co*>, <algolden3@ju*.co*>, <Captdeep6@ao*.co*>,
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<Scaleworks@ao*.co*>,
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Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>, <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>,
<brownies@ne*.ne*>, <wwm@sa*.ne*>, <GIRVINE@bl*.ne*>,
<GarlooEnt@ao*.co*>
Subject: Re: Why Obesity in deep tech diving is a contraindication---gas
exchange, revi
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:36:45 -0500
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