Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
Shill, you have posted 12 times DEMANDING the correlation between TDI
and DEATH, and you have been given those statistics from every angle,
agency, person, and format that you requested, without acknowledging that
you were wrong . You then proceed to comment on the virtues of Gilliam's
use of lies and profanity, while admonishing list members ( this is a
PRIVATE list) about "liability". You have even thrown in one message
about "raising the level of discourse", like you have anything to raise
it with.
Let's get this straight ( to borrow one of you more recent demands),
you have LOWERED the level of discussion by your ignorance, your
presumptuousness, and your obvious disdain for the truth, while pursuing
the cause of the worst influences in diving today..
YOU have nothing we want. You are hypocrite, and you have failed to do
anything but prove that point., while also proving that only a neophyte
would take up the cause of deep air for a pair of known do-nothings whose
agenda is to profit from the misery they sew.
If you actually had any interest in the real answer to your own
questions, you would have acknowledged the truth by now, but then where
would you stand with the heroes of tech diving that you so admire?
Below are excerpts from your last seventeen wastes of bandwidth. Now go
take a seat - REPEAT _ YOU HAVE NOTHING WE WANT.
If and when we ever do get to the point where we need to listen to
known idiots though the mouth of an "intro to cave" student ( even though
only a rank amateur know-nothing like yourself would do this), we will
quit the sport "that we all love", as you put it.
Read your own crap here below, and read the answers that were provided
you, and then shut up and stay shut up. It is funny, Mr. Shill, that we
did not hear a peep out of you while DEMA was going on. If you really
want to know the "correlation" between TDI and accidents, ask how many
suits are pending against TDI. By the way, did you get the 5 out of 8
number through your thick head?
ROGER STEELE'S GREATEST HITS
THE WORDS OF A STROKE
From: "roger steele" <rogersteele@ho*.co*>
Subject: Fwd: Re: DeepTech
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:45:34 CST
I did not receive a reply from anyone on the list concerning the
questions below. I am sure, since many people on this list seem to be
convinced of the unsafe teaching practices of TDI, that there must be
strong statistical proof to support these conclusions. Please respond
at your leisure.
-------------
On the other hand, if it cannot be proven, then all
of these claims are unsubstantiated by facts and therefore should be
considered mere opinion and heresay. I would like responses that are
concerned with providing actual statistics.
-----------
My question stands: Is there
a statistical correlation between scuba diving deaths and TDI
certification? If so, please respond with factual information from a
reputable agency that compiles such figures.
------
TDI certified? Of the ones that are certified, (if there are any) how
many of these deaths can you directly attribute to TDI's unsafe diving
instuction? Please respond with factual statistics.
------
My question concerns several comments on
this list about TDI unsafe diving instruction in general. This is a
very serious claim that some people are making. It is my intention to
discover the facts that back up these claims. To my knowledge, no one
has been able to do that as of yet, which leads me to believe that these
comments are unsubstantiated by relevant facts and therefore should be
ignored until these facts can be presented in a coherent manner. As I
------
Can you prove that TDI is practicing
unsafe diving instruction in its classes. I have asked you to provide
me with factual information that would show us all that TDI is directly
responsible for any deaths related to scuba diving, not just deep air.
You have failed to provide this information. I can only assume from
this that you do not have such information. From this one can only
conclude that your comments are based on heresay and opinion, and should
be ignored until relevant information is provided. It seems strange to
me that I cannot find in any of your responses a mention of DAN, a
-------
I suggest that you
contact DAN, as a starting point, in gathering statistical information
by which you can correlate scuba diving deaths with TDI certification.
-------
Therefore, you must take it upon yourself to prove your
claims. I come to you seeking knowledge on this subject. It
------
If you are going to claim criminal negligence, you are going to have to
provide facts to support this. This is a very dangerous statement to
make without facts to back it up. It amazes me that people are
perfectly willing to make such claims in the public forum without the
request facts, especially when it concerns actions that are supposedly
resulting in the deaths of human beings. Liable is not a funny issue. I
just hope that people on the list do not find this out the hard way,
right or wrong.
--------
One of my intentions in joining this list is
to raise the discourse to a level that is worthy of the sport that we
all love. Diving, whether in its technical format or sport format, is
-----
If these statistics are non-existent or impossible to get to, what are
you basing your claims upon? I do not know whether these statistics
exist or not. That is why I am asking you. In fact, if you have known
this all along, why are you just now making this claim? Have you
inquired to DAN for these statistics? I doubt it. You have a very
difficult problem to surmount now. By this statement you have
-----
oint taken. The information that I am requesting is probably difficult
to get. Analysis of the information will be even more difficult.
----
For myself, I really do not see the difference
between what Gilliam printed in his magazine and what George has posted
on this list, other than the fact that Gilliam did not print profanity.
-----
Maybe he would fair better if he would
stop sending posts about internet tactics and start focusing on diving
information and techniques.
-----
Based on our last conversation I
don't think you really want to engage me in rational argumentation. O
----
) It is an excellent place to pratice lift bag ascents, due to
the milky nature of the visibility and the depth. For instance, doing a
lift bag ascent in the ocean with high visibility is easy after
accomplishing this several times in cold, milky water. I normall
----
HUH???? Do you think I'm Brett Gilliam the TDI demon, or Roger the
cave student of Joe Odom living in Huntsville AL. Maybe I'm Fred
Flintstone, or better yet, George Irvine incognito.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]