Soooo, whats your point? You are saying that all there is to know =
about exposure to high pp's has already been discovered and is in the =
books? And therefore ppO2 of 1.6 are just fine, with 1.4 being a =
bunch of hooey? If 1.4 is better than 1.6, then 1.0 is better than =
1.4? Why is this? 

What do the sat guys know about the long term effects of exposure to =
high pp's of oxygen? If so, what are these effects? How about helium? =
What are the maximum pp limits of helium exposure? Is there helium =
toxicity? We already know about the drawbacks and benefits of =
nitrogen, but if there is ox tox but no he tox, then what are we =
arguing about?

These sat divers, how long do they remain in the biz? None of these =
guys have any physiological problems due to long term exposure to =
high pp's? How much in water decom do they do? How much of the decom =
knowledge is proprietary?

Excuse the flurry of questions, but inquiring minds want to know.

   Jim

on 6/6/97 10:21 AM Ocean Diving Inc. wrote:

>It is obvious that most of you forgot that sat divers spend more of their 
>time in deco on nitrox and O2 then they do at depth on any mix. Quit 
>diving if you feel that the wheel has not already been invented. The code 
>is written in blood. You pay for your mistakes by dying on the spot or 
>suffering from the damage caused due to unfinished decompression 
>schedules. Some guys are impatient and some are stupid and some are both. 
>Hyperbaric medicine is gaining attention as it is used to treat many 
>ailment other than diver related needs. Nitrogen will remain the bad guy, 
>and education is the key to understanding how to minimize exposures. Time 
>and depth decisions will always dictate the gasses that I carry to 
>complete any dive. If O2 scares you then go back to school and relearn 
>what has been known by COMEX, TAYLOR, HAMILTON,
>RUTKOWSKI, and thousands of us that have been working this gas into each 
>and every dive we make.  
>Sempre Deep,
>Capt. Jim 
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Jim Cobb [SMTP:cobber@mi*.co*]
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 04, 1997 11:33 AM
>To:	Nigel Chase; Tech Diver
>Subject:	Re: Bogus Nitrox
>
>Fucking great post, Nigel.
>
>I am into nitrox, insofar as reducing nitrogen intake. I use it as a 
>safety gas, using regular tables (albeit to the limit). But, since =
reading 
>George's posts, it seems so obvious. Here we are replacing nitrogen with 
>something even more insidious, oxygen. Not only are we increasing the 
>percentage of oxygen, but also it's pp. We are imposing MODs on divers =
not 
>keyed to thinking about MODS.
>
>So, nitrox is bogus, what to do? I ran my thoughts by a couple of dive 
>shops around here about using trimix in the fashion you describe in your 
>post and they looked at me in horror. Man, these poors SOB's just got =
over 
>the trauma of nitrox and now trimix? And some poor slobs have bought 
>$100,000 membrane nitrox systems. "sputter sputter, tttrimix? Why you =
have 
>to take the nitrox, deep nitrox, technical nitrox, deep air, technical 
>deep air before you even get to the trimix course".
>
>What will it take to get gas mixtures back on the right track? A fucking 
>act of God because the marketing people are into nitrox and they will =
hold 
>onto it like a pissed-off moray eel. This will be handled, like George 
>predicts, like Tobacco. First a giant coverup then endless lawsuits.
>
>Jezus Christ, I feel like an idiot. What to do? Well, anyone in Virginia 
>Beach, VA want to go in on a helium cascade setup?
>
>   Jim
>
>On 6/4/97 10:08 AM Nigel Chase wrote:
>
>>You Yanks really crack me up.  This nitrox business of yours is showing 
>>up everywhere in the UK.  Dive charters are looking more like Labor 
>>party rallies with all of these silly stickers and such pasted on tanks 
>>and car bumpers.  The biggest acronym of them all, IANTD, just recently 
>>staged a sizeable convention with all sorts of technical diving 
>>luminaries present.  
>>
>>Looks to me like the big lie has sucked in all of the really big fish. 
>>When the facts finally become known on this foolishness the scene will 
>>be reminiscent of the Nuremberg trials with everyone pointing their 
>>fingers at the next higher up while claiming complete innocence and 
>>total ignorance.  When the dust settles this poor bloke Rutkowski, who 
>>supposedly invented all of this stuff, will be the fall guy for the 
>>cadre of  world experts.  I can just picture him now, all red faced and 
>>sitting in the dock, with his solicitor purporting that it really was a 
>>divine (but erroneous) inspiration and pleading for the courts mercy.
>>
>>I was in the chemist yesterday and I couldn=EDt help but notice that 
>>almost one entire aisle of the store was devoted to antioxidant 
>>vitamins. Let=EDs see: there were all sorts of vitamin Cs, vitamin Es, 
>>vitamin A , B complexes, pynxogenol, mineral supplements and to top it 
>>all off hormones like melatonin which spposedly has mega antioxidant 
>>powers.  In fact the whole thrust of the anti cancer and anti aging 
>>crusade seems to be oriented around the power of antioxidants in 
>>preventing free radicals from damaging connective tissue and DNA.  Many 
>>physicians now agree that colon cancer as well as arteriosclerosis  are 
>>preventable through  a proper diet, high in antioxidants.
>>
>>When this as a backdrop why on earth would anyone in their right mind 
>>voluntarily expose themselves to a ultra hyperoxic breathing mix unless 
>>it was absolutely necessary. I would love one of you Yank diving rocket 
>>scientists out there to tell me that oxygen is not an oxidizer if you 
>>breath it (while you busily oxygen clean tanks and replace buna o-rings 
>>with Viton). Instead of boosting the oxygen content of the breathing gas 
>>I would lower it and replace it instead with an inert gas such as 
>>helium. Nitrox I should really be 12 - 14% helium and 19% oxygen. Nitrox 
>>II should be slightly higher helium and lower oxygen still.  I am not 
>>advocating this for deep diving either (Deep diving for me is  another 
>>whole subject).   This is strictly my suggestion for a physiologically 
>>more healthy mix.  Helium is a very rapid diffusing gas and transits the 
>>tissue rather quickly for low to moderate exposure dives.  Weigh the 
>>advantages:  reduced ppo2, reduced ppn2 (bad for those red blood cells 
>>and capillaries) and reduced deco (if you don=EDt have a pfo). 
>>
>>Helium is bloody expensive in the UK and Oz, but when you keep the mix 
>>to 10 -14% on an 80cf tank you can get as many as 30 dives out of a 
>>290-300cf cylinder of helium when you cascade several.  Even at $200 
>>U.S. per cylinder this works out to 6 -  $10 additional cost per dive. 
>>Big deal! Look what dive charters cost these days and with the weather 
>>in the UK being typically bad all of the time, how many weekends of 
>>diving do you actually get anyway.  We spend more on petrol driving to 
>>the port of embarkation.
>>
>>On one final note.  I am new to this list but I have been following some 
>>of the traffic on cavers and over on Compuserve.  This chap of yours, 
>>Irving, who I believe is director of a project with a name like the call 
>>letters of a radio station, seems to have this figured out way ahead of 
>>the rest of you Yanks. I noticed, while following the thread on deep 
>>air, that Irving dives shallow in the ocean with weak helium and reduced 
>>oxygen mixes.      I also couldn=EDt help but notice that his group uses 
>>very low ppo2 trimixes for their deep dives and is using reduced 
>>nitrogen/o2 mixes for intermediate deco. Irving also said somewhere that 
>>he only uses nitrox when it is absolutely necessary and not otherwise. 
>>
>>When the truth comes out on this nitrox business you are going to see a 
>>lot of bumper stickers and dive shop front doors with the IEC verboten 
>>symbol (red circle with a hash) over the nitrox.
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Nigel Chase
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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