It is obvious that most of you forgot that sat divers spend more of =
their time in deco on nitrox and O2 then they do at depth on any mix. =
Quit diving if you feel that the wheel has not already been invented. =
The code is written in blood. You pay for your mistakes by dying on the =
spot or suffering from the damage caused due to unfinished decompression =
schedules. Some guys are impatient and some are stupid and some are =
both. Hyperbaric medicine is gaining attention as it is used to treat =
many ailment other than diver related needs. Nitrogen will remain the =
bad guy, and education is the key to understanding how to minimize =
exposures. Time and depth decisions will always dictate the gasses that =
I carry to complete any dive. If O2 scares you then go back to school =
and relearn what has been known by COMEX, TAYLOR, HAMILTON,
RUTKOWSKI, and thousands of us that have been working this gas into each =
and every dive we make. =20
Sempre Deep,
Capt. Jim=20


-----Original Message-----
From:	Jim Cobb [SMTP:cobber@mi*.co*]
Sent:	Wednesday, June 04, 1997 11:33 AM
To:	Nigel Chase; Tech Diver
Subject:	Re: Bogus Nitrox

Fucking great post, Nigel.

I am into nitrox, insofar as reducing nitrogen intake. I use it as a =
safety gas, using regular tables (albeit to the limit). But, since =
reading George's posts, it seems so obvious. Here we are replacing =
nitrogen with something even more insidious, oxygen. Not only are we =
increasing the percentage of oxygen, but also it's pp. We are imposing =
MODs on divers not keyed to thinking about MODS.

So, nitrox is bogus, what to do? I ran my thoughts by a couple of dive =
shops around here about using trimix in the fashion you describe in your =
post and they looked at me in horror. Man, these poors SOB's just got =
over the trauma of nitrox and now trimix? And some poor slobs have =
bought $100,000 membrane nitrox systems. "sputter sputter, tttrimix? Why =
you have to take the nitrox, deep nitrox, technical nitrox, deep air, =
technical deep air before you even get to the trimix course".

What will it take to get gas mixtures back on the right track? A fucking =
act of God because the marketing people are into nitrox and they will =
hold onto it like a pissed-off moray eel. This will be handled, like =
George predicts, like Tobacco. First a giant coverup then endless =
lawsuits.

Jezus Christ, I feel like an idiot. What to do? Well, anyone in Virginia =
Beach, VA want to go in on a helium cascade setup?

   Jim

On 6/4/97 10:08 AM Nigel Chase wrote:

>You Yanks really crack me up.  This nitrox business of yours is showing =

>up everywhere in the UK.  Dive charters are looking more like Labor=20
>party rallies with all of these silly stickers and such pasted on tanks =

>and car bumpers.  The biggest acronym of them all, IANTD, just recently =

>staged a sizeable convention with all sorts of technical diving=20
>luminaries present. =20
>
>Looks to me like the big lie has sucked in all of the really big fish.=20
>When the facts finally become known on this foolishness the scene will=20
>be reminiscent of the Nuremberg trials with everyone pointing their=20
>fingers at the next higher up while claiming complete innocence and=20
>total ignorance.  When the dust settles this poor bloke Rutkowski, who=20
>supposedly invented all of this stuff, will be the fall guy for the=20
>cadre of  world experts.  I can just picture him now, all red faced and =

>sitting in the dock, with his solicitor purporting that it really was a =

>divine (but erroneous) inspiration and pleading for the courts mercy.
>
>I was in the chemist yesterday and I couldn=EDt help but notice that=20
>almost one entire aisle of the store was devoted to antioxidant=20
>vitamins. Let=EDs see: there were all sorts of vitamin Cs, vitamin Es,=20
>vitamin A , B complexes, pynxogenol, mineral supplements and to top it=20
>all off hormones like melatonin which spposedly has mega antioxidant=20
>powers.  In fact the whole thrust of the anti cancer and anti aging=20
>crusade seems to be oriented around the power of antioxidants in=20
>preventing free radicals from damaging connective tissue and DNA.  Many =

>physicians now agree that colon cancer as well as arteriosclerosis  are =

>preventable through  a proper diet, high in antioxidants.
>
>When this as a backdrop why on earth would anyone in their right mind=20
>voluntarily expose themselves to a ultra hyperoxic breathing mix unless =

>it was absolutely necessary. I would love one of you Yank diving rocket =

>scientists out there to tell me that oxygen is not an oxidizer if you=20
>breath it (while you busily oxygen clean tanks and replace buna o-rings =

>with Viton). Instead of boosting the oxygen content of the breathing =
gas=20
>I would lower it and replace it instead with an inert gas such as=20
>helium. Nitrox I should really be 12 - 14% helium and 19% oxygen. =
Nitrox=20
>II should be slightly higher helium and lower oxygen still.  I am not=20
>advocating this for deep diving either (Deep diving for me is  another=20
>whole subject).   This is strictly my suggestion for a physiologically=20
>more healthy mix.  Helium is a very rapid diffusing gas and transits =
the=20
>tissue rather quickly for low to moderate exposure dives.  Weigh the=20
>advantages:  reduced ppo2, reduced ppn2 (bad for those red blood cells=20
>and capillaries) and reduced deco (if you don=EDt have a pfo).=20
>
>Helium is bloody expensive in the UK and Oz, but when you keep the mix=20
>to 10 -14% on an 80cf tank you can get as many as 30 dives out of a=20
>290-300cf cylinder of helium when you cascade several.  Even at $200=20
>U.S. per cylinder this works out to 6 -  $10 additional cost per dive.=20
>Big deal! Look what dive charters cost these days and with the weather=20
>in the UK being typically bad all of the time, how many weekends of=20
>diving do you actually get anyway.  We spend more on petrol driving to=20
>the port of embarkation.
>
>On one final note.  I am new to this list but I have been following =
some=20
>of the traffic on cavers and over on Compuserve.  This chap of yours,=20
>Irving, who I believe is director of a project with a name like the =
call=20
>letters of a radio station, seems to have this figured out way ahead of =

>the rest of you Yanks. I noticed, while following the thread on deep=20
>air, that Irving dives shallow in the ocean with weak helium and =
reduced=20
>oxygen mixes.      I also couldn=EDt help but notice that his group =
uses=20
>very low ppo2 trimixes for their deep dives and is using reduced=20
>nitrogen/o2 mixes for intermediate deco. Irving also said somewhere =
that=20
>he only uses nitrox when it is absolutely necessary and not otherwise.=20
>
>When the truth comes out on this nitrox business you are going to see a =

>lot of bumper stickers and dive shop front doors with the IEC verboten=20
>symbol (red circle with a hash) over the nitrox.
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>Nigel Chase
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
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