Andy, the real problem is guys like you who have never done a real dive
teaching - we are not talking about the same thing here,  we are talking a
technicality that is none of your business, and when it is your business I will
tell yo u what is really going on here. What I teach is what you see the
results of

On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Andy Schmidt <aschmidt@ma*.ni*.ne*> wrote:
>Bravo Tom!
>
>Being an expert diver does not make an instructor (and vice versa). Just
because someone is very proficient (or even the most proficient person around)
in some skill, does NOT mean that this person is capable to effectively
communicate on or TEACH that subject in a classroom setting, and evaluate
whether his teaching has been comprehended by the students.
>
>I speaks for your integrity that you know (and respect) someone's skills and
still insist that he be probably evaluated in *all* aspects of being an
instructor.
>
>Best Regards
>Andy
>
>----------
>From: 	Tom Mount
>Sent: 	Friday, March 07, 1997 1:31 PM
>To: 	cavers@ge*.co*
>Cc: 	techdiver@aquanaut.com
>Subject: 	Re: gmi trimix certs
>
>Hi Jesse
>
>In Sept of last year George contacted Billy Deans and I at IANTd about 
>becomming an instructor. We did not give him a run around , we did spell 
>out the requirements he would need to meet (remember at the time he had 
>no instructor ratings at all), we even tooki his abilities into 
>consideration and presented him with a plan that would expidate his 
>certification to the levels he was interested in. It did require an IDC.
>
>Shortly after that is when you apparently gave him a trimix instructor 
>rating, without a formal IEC or multi person /instructor evaluation. 
>
>We (IANTD) have no problem with your awarding him a TDI trimix 
>instructor rating without having him first be a scuba instructor and 
>without having him do IEC's at the specified instructor levels, or 
>having co taught any of those courses.  
>
>HOWEVER  within IANTD we do not have that degree of flexiability, thus 
>we required the formal environment of instructor training. I do not 
>think abiding by our standards constitutes, the comment of giving 
>someone the runaround. 
>
>Presently we are setting up an IEC program to allow George to crossover, 
>it is an IEC though and George will have demonstrated in a formal 
>setting all the teaching abilities in SCUBA and then in the Halcyon. 
>Part of this program involves his teaching a program(s).
>
>The main goal is to get him qualified as a Halcyon rebreather 
>instructor. I personally know his abilities on this unit and I have 
>dived it with him, he has more hours on it than I do now and most likely 
>more than Jack kellen (the designer) and Robert at brownies(the 
>manufacturer) however we will formally do the IEC and have him TEACH in 
>a formal course, which is different than an informal setting. 
>
>He will also do and demonstrate all the skills in the standards so it is 
>public record he did as much to earn his instructorship as anyone, with 
>the only break being he is expidated somewhat due to his experience 
>which we do indeed recognize and reflect this in allowing him to come 
>directly up to a Halcyon RB instructor in coinjunction with the overall 
>IEC/IDC. It also verifies what I as an individual already know in that 
>he has the knowledge, skill and capability to teach and fitness level to 
>handle emergiencies. 
>
>IANTD is bound by its standards and priniciples to this course of 
>action. George does not seem to mind at all. In fact I think(opnion) he 
>rather enjoys the chance to demonstrate his skills and knowledge, and 
>that his certification will be solid and not open to questions.
>
>Tom Mount
>
>Jesse Armantrout wrote:
>> 
>> Since there seems to be little interest in facts on these lists, many of you
>> may wish to disregard this post.  However, the following are the facts with
>> regard to the trimix instructor certification of George Irvine, III.
>> 
>> I certified George as a TDI Trimix Instructor.  After hearing that George
>> was being given the run around by another agency, I suggested that I might
>> be able to help.  It was my idea.  I called Bret Gilliam and asked him if I
>> could waive certain requirements.  Bret said that it was up to me, as a TDI
>> trimix instructor trainer,  and that I would have to document everything.  I
>> prepared the paperwork and faxed it to TDI headquarters.
>> 
>> The reasons I felt George was qualified to teach trimix were based on, among
>> other things:
>> 1. My personal  observation of George conducting over a dozen long range
>> trimix cave exploration dives
>> 2. Diving with George on deep open water dives
>> 3. The fact that since I have known George, he has taught me more about
>> trimix than I thought I knew.
>> 
>> George told me that the primary reason he wanted to become a trimix
>> instructor was for the training of WKPP personnel.  Nobody in the world is
>> more qualified to do that, and anybody that questions that needs to come out
>> and visit a site over which George is presiding.
>> 
>> I did not think it was necessary to force George to go "step-by step"
>> through a formal TDI course, as I had already witnessed the execution of all
>> requirements to my satisfaction.  If anybody has a problem with this, they
>> need to contact me.  Not George. Not TDI.  Not the lists.  My phone number
>> is included.
>> 
>> Jesse Armantrout
>> TDI IT#17
>> 334-443-4695
>> 
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