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>>Stuffing the long hose is not safe<
>Safety is really not a issue, I don't believe having a long hose
Then what is - dying?
>neatly stowed away (not stuffed) would create an unsafe situation.
Stowed away - sure - stow it in your duffel bag. Unless you give
"specifics" you're not making sense... Where are you gonna "stow" it.
And, if it's not tucked tightly and loops protrude it CAN catch on
things both in wrecks and in caves and will.
>Where as the long hose that was wraped under a light canister and then
>crossing over the chest and finally around the neck is any "safer"
>"Safer"in what way?? I don't think any method is safer than the other
>( "free from risk, danger, harm, or injury")
Long hose wrapped is MUCH easier to deploy, especially in a high
stress situation or one in which you cannot use your hands (unstuffing
the long hose is impossible in this last scenario). This was evident
from the first time I tried it. BUt, people like to argue that
whatever THEY do is best, I've seen it. You can immediately decant
about 4-5' of hose just by ducking your head and at the same time
picking up your spare reg that's around your neck. Then, when you
have time a quick flick will get the hose out from under the canister.
This really is the simplest and most efficient way.
>>Stuffing is not optimal<
>"Optimal" is certainly an issue: for favorable or desirable condition
Interesting that you think "optimal" is an issue but safety isn't.
I'd say you have your priorities backward here.
>of use would have to come down to personal choice and task at hand.
>The diver who does not have a light canister or other item on his
>waist that the long hose can easily be wrapped under might feel that
>stowing the long hose behind his head or along side his cylinder would
Behind his head - where all the valves and 1st stages and other hoses
are. Or do you mean BEHIND the valves where it can REALLY get caught
on something??? Just think, the long hose is stuffed behind your head
so, as you deploy it, you rip the other reg (which you're already put
in your mouth) out of your mouth as the hoses get tangled. I guess
the only thing that's scary is you're serious. Why would you stuff a
hose where there are already other obstables to ensnare and tangle it?
Talk about non-optimal... The diver without a light canister can
"tuck" that end of the hose under his belt. But, why no light
canister and how close is he to rule #1???
Maybe someone like Dive Rite will invent a HOSE REEL so you can wind
it up :^)
Tuck it along side a cylinder??? Hmmm - I've banged tanks a few times
on walls, ceilings, etc - anyone here who hasn't please raise their
hands. Anyone think that banging a HOSE isn't a good idea???
>be more "optimal". Where as the diver who routinly shares gas with
>his dive partners and then switches back to a stage bottle might feel
>that breathing from the long hose would be opitmal.
It only takes ONCE that you need OPTIMAL - why do it otherwise???
>>Unstowing the long hose<
>If the long hose is stowed neatly the time difference in deploying is minute
>if any. If a chest strap or other piece of equipment where to be placed over
Not if you can't deploy it properly or if it's stuffed to tightly or
if it got tanged because it wasn't "stowed" tightly enough. Geez,
what a nightmare, why bother.
>the long hose by accident this could hamper the deployment, if the donor
>where in fact breathing from the long hose.
Putting the long hose under a chest strap would.
#1) be caught during the "S" drill when the hose must be deployed BEFORE
you start the dive - or don't you do these???
#2) if done on purpose comes under rule #1.
>>Stressed diver ripps yours from your mouth, now pinned to you because of
>>the shortness of the hose<
>So what! The hose isn't any shorter than what 99% of all divers learned
>their basic air sharing skills on. The merits of the long hose is for ease
Sure, just use OW gear in the caves, on the wrecks - that's what all
divers learn from anyway. What is your point here?
>of sharing gas while passing threw retrictions and to make moving easier
>for both divers. Once the stressed diver calms down the correct regulators
It's ALSO for ease of deployment and recovery of your secondary. If
you're in a restriction, your buddy is ahead of you and needs air, how
are you going to deploy a stuffed hose, and, what if it gets stuck
behind you somewhere while he's in front???
>can be switched (how much time is really lost?). I think there would be a
Enough to die - is that enough???
>serious problem if the diver also stowed the second stage behind his head or
>along side his cylinder (which would be stupid, but yes I have this). But if
>the back-up regulator is stowed on the chest area than there shouldn't be
>problem.
Other than the ones I've mentioned, maybe not...
>>Forced compromise of some other part or your gear<
>How? If the hose is neatly stowed behind head, along side cylinder or
>inside of back-plate it's out of the way of everything else. What is being
>compromised?
Extra hose or tie downs/etc somewhere needed to "stuff" or hold down
the long hose. Potential entanglements with putting the hose behind
your head of your OTHER hoses.
>>Stuffed hoses get caught on things<
>What THINGS? It would be very difficult to catch a hose on anything that
>was neatly place along side a cylinder and almost impossible if it were
>stowed on inside of the back-plate. If the hose was stowed behind the head
>with big loops that ran beyond the divers shoulder width then there "might "
>be a problem.
On the INSIDE of a backplate. That's crimping a hose unnecessarily,
making it difficult to deploy, susceptible to wear and tear. No
thanks, why do you keep arguing an indefensible point?
>> They are hard to free up, they are confused and messy<
>That could go for just about any piece of equipment.
Maybe that YOU wear, but not me...
>>They clutter your dive gear<
>HOW?
A stuffed hose requires something to hold it in place - addition
attachment points, potential for snags, bumps, abrasions, etc.
>>There is no convenient way to stow the hose where to second stage is
>protected<
>Stow the hose behind your head and bring the second stage over your right
>shoulder and secure to harness. What's hard about that?.
>>It generally takes two to restuff<
>True but not always. But who says the hose has to be "restuffed"? Why not
MORE IMPORTANTLY - it may take two to UNSTUFF!!!
>simply run the hose under your arm, around your head and put the second stage
>back into position on the right side, the excess hose can be put under your
>waist strap.
So why not just breathe the long hose in the first place??? you've
NOT come up with ONE reason NOT to do this, you're only trying to
justify breathing the short one.
>>Not good planning<
>Planning for what?
Emergencies... Read above I really don't want to type it twice...
>>Back-up reg should be a lower performance model, so as not to lose gas<
>Now that's a safety issue. If anything the back-up reg should be the best
>performer or the two, not the least. The diver could use side exhaust
>regulators and have them both set for peak performace without the worry of
Really - and why don't you think side exhaust regs will free flow???
Fortunately on the Odin there's a +/- switch, but on others??? I
use the Odins for both sides.
>freeflow that is common with front exhaust regulators. Or the diver could
>install an inline shut off valve located at the second stage,, and keep the
>second stage off when not in use.
More valves, O rings - why introduce failure points?
>>causes excess drag<
>I doubt that with all the gear technical divers are carrying hose placement
>would be a concern of "drag". Has this theory ever been really tested in a
>controlled environment?.
Ah, here's the crux of the situation. If "technical" divers stopped carrying
all that unnecessary crap, they would be MUCH more streamlined...
>>Not the safest<
>Again this not a safety issue
Sorry, you're simply wrong, but I suspect you know that.
-Carl-
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