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Here's the thread.
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:05 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #268850, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Wed, Dec 20, 1995 12:04:23 AM
Subject: Argon for suit inflation
From: Andy Schmidt [NJ] 74513,2274
To: Chris Doole/Winnipeg,MB 76256,653 (received)
>> Pardon my ignorance, but is there an implied relationship between the
breathing mix and the use of Argon? <<
The thermal properties of Helium make Heliox not the first choice for
drysuit inflation (when compared to air). While Argon/ArgOx can
certainly as an inflation gas for air dives, it is usually recommended
when diving Helium mixtures.
Best Regards
Andy
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:13 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #268748, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Tue, Dec 19, 1995 3:02:01 PM
Subject: Argon for suit inflation
From: Flex Keller (CH) 101334,2132
To: John Comly (NJ) 74670,2765 (received)
Reply: #268804 (1 reply)
But isn't it right, that 5% O2 in about 30m is 'like' Air on surface. Or
does the Argon have any kind of narcotic effect?
I never tried inflaiting my drysuit with anything else than Air or
Nitrox. I think I try this out... if I can find a small tank for argon
(with DIN-Value).
Is it dangerous to mix argon and O2? Do I need spec Equipment
(first stage) for argon or can I use a normal 'air' first-stage with
normal O-rings?
Flex
-Flex Keller (CH)
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:18 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #268804, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Tue, Dec 19, 1995 7:16:11 PM
Subject: #268748-Argon for suit inflation
From: John Comly (NJ) 74670,2765
To: Flex Keller (CH) 101334,2132 (received)
Reply: #269007 (2 replies)
Flex:
Yes argon narcotic potency is about three times that of air at the same depth.
The use of 5% oxygen mixture is that it will support life at depth, and at
shallower depths(or surface) should give the diver warning signs of a hypoxic
mixture.
You shouldn't have any trouble finding a small bottle for the argon, most
divers are using a 15 cu alum. However smaller bottles can be purchased.
No it is no more dangerous mixing argon with oxygen then it is mixing air
with oxygen. (by means of partial pressure)
The only special equipment needed for argon inflation system would be a over
pressure relief device in the first stage. These can be purchased for
around$50.00 (not positive on the price)
Yes you can use just about any first stage with normal Orings
Take Care
John
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:26 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269007, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Wed, Dec 20, 1995 4:04:12 PM
Subject: #268804-Argon for suit inflation
From: Little Skiny Scubadiver 101334,2132
To: John Comly (NJ) 74670,2765 (received)
Reply: #269080 (2 replies)
>>>The only special equipment needed for argon inflation system would be a
over pressure relief device in the first stage. These can be purchased
for around$50.00 (not positive on the price)<<<
You meen something like a Burst-Disk? Why?
Safe Diving
Flex
-Little Skiny Scubadiver
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:29 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269080, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Wed, Dec 20, 1995 10:36:07 PM
Subject: #269007-Argon for suit inflation
From: John Comly (NJ) 74670,2765
To: Little Skiny Scubadiver 101334,2132 (received)
Flex:
Not exactly a burst disk in the normal sense: The purpose of a burst disk is
to vent excessive high pressure. The vent hole of the burst will remain open
until ALL pressure is released, thus making the need to replace it once it
blows. While the purpose of this pressure relief valve is to vent excessive
intermediate pressure. The valve will close once the pressure is reduced,
making it useable over and over.
Normally the second stage which is attached to the first stage is the
pressure relief valve, have you ever had your second stage "POP"? this is
caused by excessive intermediate pressure. When most divers use argon they
only attach a LP inflator hose to the first stage thus eliminating the
pressure relief valve (second stage) so one needs to be added. Not only to
protect the hose but also to prevent uncontrolled suit inflation.
Hope this answers your question
Take Care
John
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:36 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269086, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Wed, Dec 20, 1995 10:53:04 PM
Subject: #269007-Argon for suit inflation
From: Andy Schmidt [NJ] 74513,2274
To: Little Skiny Scubadiver 101334,2132 (received)
"Little Skinny Scubadiver",
a) With whom am I speaking - what is your REAL name please?
b) A normal scuba regulator will have a first and second stage. In case
of a first stage failure, your second stage would simply "venting" the
excess pressure by going into a "freeflow" (or just constantly trickling
bubbles).
An Argos bottle will ONLY have a first stage. There will NOT be a second
stage since you won't breath of it. For that reason you need a different
safety mechanism to replace the pressure relief function of a second stage.
Best Regards
Andy
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:42 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269016, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Wed, Dec 20, 1995 4:47:13 PM
Subject: #268804-Argon for suit inflation
From: Little Skiny Scubadiver 101334,2132
To: John Comly (NJ) 74670,2765 (received)
Reply: #269081 (1 reply)
>>>Yes argon narcotic potency is about three times that of air at the same
depth. The use of 5% oxygen mixture is that it will support life at depth, and
at shallower depths(or surface) should give the diver warning signs of a
hypoxic mixture.<<<
One more 'stupid' question... (yes I know I wasn't very quick)
How can you breath the argon witch is in your suit? Or has your Drysuit the
same 'connector' as the Inflator(Air II)? I don't think you have a Reg at your
Drysuit's Hose...! :-)
Flex
-Little Skiny Scubadiver
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:46 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269081, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Wed, Dec 20, 1995 10:36:08 PM
Subject: #269016-Argon for suit inflation
From: John Comly (NJ) 74670,2765
To: Little Skiny Scubadiver 101334,2132 (received)
Flex:
Not a stupid question: Breathing argon by mistake has happened.
The most common cause is the use of unlabeled or mislabel cylinders and the
diver simply connects his first and second stage to the wrong cylinder by
mistake. Another cause is filling argon into a wrong cylinder, and not
analyzing the cylinders.
Take Care
John
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:49 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269497, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Fri, Dec 22, 1995 10:52:05 PM
Subject: Argon for suit inflation
From: George M. Irvine, I 103307,3372
To: John Comly (NJ) 74670,2765
Reply: #269532 (2 replies)
Here we go again - more misinformation - unbelievable!
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:54 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269532, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Sat, Dec 23, 1995 2:00:17 AM
Subject: #269497-Argon for suit inflation
From: Andy Schmidt [NJ] 74513,2274
To: George M. Irvine, I 103307,3372 (received)
>> Here we go again - more misinformation - unbelievable! <<
Do you have any information to contribute? (Y'know that's how CompuServe
works best.)
We don't worship someone just for smart comments - but for smart CONTENTS.
Andy
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:54:59 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269573, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Sat, Dec 23, 1995 10:36:10 AM
Subject: #269497-Argon for suit inflation
From: Dan Fountain 76545,1467
To: George M. Irvine, I 103307,3372 (received)
Reply: #269884 (1 reply)
George,
>> Here we go again - more misinformation - unbelievable!
I seem to have deleted the original message, so please quote the
misinformation and give us the straight information so we won't be
misled. With your vast experience in Florida caves and tropical waters,
I'm sure you have valuable insights concerning cold water diving to share
with us Great Lakes, Pacific Northwest, and North Atlantic divers.
Dan
========================================================= Daniel R.
Fountain dfountain@ao*.co* CIS 76545,1467
"I try to learn from the mistakes of others, since I can't live long
enough to make them all myself."
=========================================================
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:55:23 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269884, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Mon, Dec 25, 1995 4:03:08 PM
Subject: #269573-Argon for suit inflation
From: George M. Irvine, I 103307,3372
To: Dan Fountain 76545,1467 (received)
Reply: #269893 (4 replies)
Dan , while I am sure it makes you feel better to be a smartass,
let me just remind you that my information comes from actual tests
in tanks with icewater and probes on the diver's body (USN), not the
subjective opinion of a diver.
Maybe when you do some of the dives I do, you can get away
with sniping at me. Until then, you are FOS, just like the guys you
are trying to defend. You know full well what I am talking abut here,
so stick with the subject. I can assure you that I am qualified to
discuss it.
If you guys think that spreading nonsense is such a good idea,
try it over on cavers or techdiver and I will stay out of the discussion,
and you will still get your heads blown off by about twenty other
guys. Also, try yor little comment on me over there, and again,
I will stay out of it, and you will get blasted the same way.
Just because you guys think there is nobody here who knows
any better is no excuse to pass out bad information and dangerous,
reckless, and just plain stupid ideas. - George
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:55:32 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269893, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Mon, Dec 25, 1995 6:29:21 PM
Subject: #269884-Argon for suit inflation
From: Fred Calhoun 75613,1510
To: George M. Irvine, I 103307,3372
G Irvine
Whatever did "Dan" say that got you on a tare (tear?)?
Calhoun
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:55:35 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269920, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Mon, Dec 25, 1995 10:11:04 PM
Subject: #269884-Argon for suit inflation
From: John Crea {Cave Diver} 76636,3676
To: George M. Irvine, I 103307,3372
George,
We try and keep messags posted here on the Scuba Forum at a "G" rating. I
really do not think that calling Dan Fountain "FOS" is appropriate
behavior, and request that you try and write/post messages that do not
include offensive references or terms.
John
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:55:41 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #269944, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Tue, Dec 26, 1995 3:35:20 AM
Subject: #269884-Argon for suit inflation
From: Brian Nadwidny(Alta.,CDN 74357,107
To: George M. Irvine, I 103307,3372
George,
I have never heard of you or your qualifications. So:
<< my information comes from actual tests
in tanks with icewater and probes on the diver's body (USN),>>
References please so that we can do a follow up.
<< Maybe when you do some of the dives I do...>>
Since I've never heard of you I would appreciate a little bit of a
biography. You come off as someone who has the answers so WHY should I
listen to you? Are you someone that I should have heard of and/or
respect your opinion?
Brian
Edmonton, Canada
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:55:46 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #270096, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Tue, Dec 26, 1995 7:10:26 PM
Subject: #269884-Argon for suit inflation
From: Dan Fountain 76545,1467
To: George M. Irvine, I 103307,3372
>> Dan , while I am sure it makes you feel better to be a smartass, let
>>me just remind you that my information comes from actual tests in
>> tanks with icewater and probes on the diver's body (USN), not the
>> subjective opinion of a diver.
George,
My point, (before my snide remark) was that it was impossible to tell
from your posting what information you are were objecting to. Nor did
you offer any information to correct the misinformation you were pointing
out. I'll repeat: please quote the part you object to and offer
something better.
Dan
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:55:53 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #268740, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Tue, Dec 19, 1995 2:23:26 PM
Subject: Argon for suit inflation
From: Harold Gartner 71470,1423
To: Chris Doole/Winnipeg,MB 76256,653 (received)
Reply: #268916 (1 reply)
Chris,
By all means go for the Argon; I get chilled in a DUI crushed neoprhene
suit with Poltec undergarments on deco hangs of over 30 minutes or so to
the point where I have to use the +5 vest or use Argon. The seperate
bottle isn't that big a deal. So far the only disappointing thing is
that the big Argon tanks on the side of my house only get filled to about
2000psi so it's hard to use a 3000psi pony and get a full fill. I've
been topping off with air, but pure O2 would be safer and those tanks are
usually filled to about 2500 psi.
Hal
o---- old Beer Nav, 12/26/95, 10:55:59 PM, Scuba Forum ----o
PFBPMF
Message: #268916, S/12 Technical Diving
Date: Wed, Dec 20, 1995 10:02:19 AM
Subject: #268740-Argon for suit inflation
From: Chris Doole/Winnipeg,MB 76256,653
To: Harold Gartner 71470,1423 (received)
Reply: #268992 (1 reply)
Harold,
Thanks for the info. What size pony do you use, and do you ever run out
of argon? TIA chris
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