Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:01:16 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>
>> I was at Little River 3 days ago; at that time, there was a triangle
>>junction with 3 legs.
>
>Do you know how many 3 way junctions there are in Jackson Blue alone? =
More=20
>than I have been able to keep up with. Just because there are three =
lines=20
>there does not mean that it merits some "special" apparatus. It is =
nothing=20
>more than a T, of sorts.
>
>> It seems to me that the large triangle is just a convenient way to
>>anchor a 3-point line without gaps.
>
>So now every time I lay line I should carry a bundle of these "large=20
>triangles" with me. Lets see 9000' of line on the last series of dives,=
6=20
>"3-way splits" that come to mind, damn I should order some of the =
gadgets,=20
>the line arrows and knots I put in must not be working. In=
=20
>all actuality I am fucking with you John
I don't mind you fucking with me too much, as long as it's for a
purpose, not just to win debate points. Actually, I don't totally
disagree with you here..I vote for whatever gets the job done safely.
Just keep in mind the extremely high traffic and general level of
(in)experience this location sees. I think the larger mooring point
probably keeps the lines here from having to be repaired/replaced on
an almost daily basis. The size of the arrow/triangle itself really
does nothing to contribute or detract from the safety of the situation
that I can see, small or large.
>> As to the placement of the permanent line, I think the current one
>>is a good compromise. It's out of sight of the entrance, so it
>>doesn't "entice" OW divers to go where they're unqualified to be, yet
>>it's conveniently placed to allow easy, rapid access to the cave for
>>qualified divers.
>
>Most qualified divers that I know that want "rapid access" in that cave =
do=20
>so w/o running a primary reel. That is not to say that reels are not =
run=20
>on other dives, they just follow the ding marks out in LR. Students on =
the=20
>other hand are running reels and developing the skills needed to become=20
>cave divers, living cave divers being preferred, and running a damn gap=20
>reel to the bottom of the cavern is not developing skills.
Neither is going in w/o a reel at all, that is total bullshit, no
matter how qualified you are. As you say, should little river merit
some special status? Nope, continuous guideline, all the way out of
the overhead environment. As for students, I'll comment on that in a
minute.
=20
>>I dive LR on a regular basis; it's close to home for
>>me, and a good place to just get wet. I ran reels through the keyhole
>>for years to where the old permanent line began. I CAN do it.. why
>>should I HAVE to?
>
>The world of cave diving does not center around your, or our for that=20
>matter, convenience. You are skilled at running reels, it takes you an=20
>extra min to run that reel to the old point: A student, who is building=
=20
>the experience, will spend several mins dealing with the complexities =
that=20
>develop, this is experience in the making.
>> I cave dive to see cave. If i want to exercise,
>>I'll go to a gym.
>> A diver that reaches the point where the permanent line begins now
>>has not been "enticed" by the presence of the line;he is already in
>>the cave zone, and has decided to go on anyway, line or not. A
>>permanent line with an end close to the visible light zone could save
>>this idiot's life.
>
>Agreed, but a line that is far enough back to make a student work and=20
>develop skills might just save the students life.
When did we start lining caves as instructional aids? You might as
well argue that there should be NO permanent lines in ANY caves. That
would sure make students work.And everyone else as well.
You can't "make" new divers work to develop skills;either they have
the right attitude & commitment to improving their techniques, or they
don't. You CAN fail to pass or certify them if they don't demonstrate
this attitude during their training, but once certified, the
individual diver has to take the responsibility for maintaining or
improving their skills to the levels required for the dives they do.
In this respect, we should all consider ourselves students forever;
the learning should never stop.
Somewhere along the line, the idea of a certification being a
license to learn has fallen by the wayside. The attitude seems to be
that "I'm certified, so I can now do any dive anywhere, and I'll be
ok" It's analogous to a sixteen-year-old walking out of the driver's
license bureau and heading for downtown Atlanta at 5 PM. Does that
mean we should design the highways so everyone has to take the long
way around? Personally, I don't think so. Rather, design things for
general efficiency and encourage/require responsible decision making
as a prerequisite for getting that learner's permit in the first
place.
=20
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