Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:52:39 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> I don't mind you fucking with me too much, as long as it's for a
>>purpose, not just to win debate points.
>
>There is much more to debates than winning, usually.
=20
On CAVERS??!! What happened to those coke alerts?
>
>I think those that are going to the main line w/o a reel are not in need=
of=20
>developing the experience of running a reel. This is certainly not=20
>something that the masses should try, and I do not advocate it, save to =
say=20
>there are safer ways to dive than what is currently taught by most. I=20
>would also say that those that practice this are usually on motors, =
lowered=20
>air consumption great ability to cover distance, and do so only in a=20
>limited number of caves.
It's not a matter of experience, it's one of safety. If you don't
have a continuous guideline to the surface, you have greatly reduced
you margin of safety for exiting the cave if an emergency occurs.
Some divers may accept that as a cost of increased range/ achieving
an objective/ comfort, but hopefully they are not kidding themselves
into thinking their experience exempts them from the consequences of
their act if something goes wrong.
>Easiest answer is to run the line all the way to the surface. No reels=20
>needed, sure it might "entice" a curious soul or two into a cave, most =
of=20
>which are going anyway, but it would probably provide them with a means =
of=20
>egress as well. However, since this is not going to happen in most =
caves,=20
>and the industry will continue to teach, attempt to in most cases, the =
art=20
>of running a primary reel, the line that they are running to should be=20
>further into the cave than a gap reel.
The enticement theory is the only reason I can see for NOT running
a permanent continuous line to the surface.
(from a previous post)
" If you believe visible lines are an enticement to untrained divers,
causing them to enter the cave zone when they otherwise would not,
then the ends need to be placed in the cave zone, not in open water.
How FAR back in the cave zone you begin them makes no real difference.
If you believe that untrained divers are going to swim into the
cave zones regardless of the presence of the line, then the line
should begin in open water to give them the best possible chance of
surviving their stupidity."
(end post)
I have no real way to test whether either of these beliefs is 100%
true all the time. Failing that, I would prefer to have the guideline
in place all the way to the surface.=20
>It is not the line that is the instructional aid, it is the practice of=20
>running the reel that is the instructional aid.
EXACTLY! you can practice running a guideline whether a permanent line
is present or not, and regardless of where it begins.
>
>Have you seen the novice, or for that matter the average experienced =
diver,=20
>population at work lately? There are people that are being turned out =
in=20
>record numbers who can't walk and chew gum simultaneously. Some =
individual=20
>instructors will follow the rules of logic and common sense and others =
will=20
>follow the money.
This has little to do with guideline placement or the absence or
presence of a large triangle in LR. If there are increasing numbers of
divers whose skill levels are not what they should be, moving the end
of the permanent line deeper into the cave just increases their
chances of an accident. That's fine if all you want to do is wait for
someone to die so you can point fingers and count coup, but it's an
expensive way in terms of lives to remove unqualified instructors. The
argument that the guidelines are moved to make it easier to pass
marginal students does not hold water. If unscrupulous instructors are
going to certify students just for the money, they will do so
regardless of the students' actual proficiency.
=20
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