Sorry, George did run a 65.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 3:16 PM
To: Dan L. Volker
Cc: 'Samy Elashmawy'; 'Geoff Kelafant'; 'Tom Mount'; 'Mike Bruic';
cavers@cavers.com
Subject: VO2 Max was Re: Madison diving


Dan, my VO2 Max is 65 ml/kg , not 50 . I am almost 50 years old - so
maybe you got that number confused with my Vo2 max - you were there when
they tested me. Now it may be even higher, since I came down from 195 to
about 185 without losing any strength, and that last test was before I
even began training for Ironman.

I like the correlation betewen VO2 max and decompresion success. As you
know, I did 370 minutes BT at Wakulla last Saturday and did 7:40 of deco
only. That is called being in shape.

Dan L. Volker wrote:
>
> `35 ml /kg of body weight is average for a college aged person who is
> physically active in sports, but not in any elite category. The same >aged
nerd who lays on the couch and watches TV may average 25 ml/kg, >provided he
is not a HFS.
>
> Guys like George are around 50 ml/kg
>
> Elite, Olympic level cross country skiers average the highest, with around
> 70-75 ml/kg of body weight.
>
> A guy with a body fat over 30%, particularly if sedentary, would be
> fortunate to reach 10 or 15 ml/kg.
>
> VO2 max will predict the physical exertion potential of a diver, and the
> existence of a high VO2 max will correlate to an increased ability to off
> gas in deco---not by the VO2 max itself, but by the peripheral adaptations
> which the training created---the training led to the high VO2 max.
>
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Samy Elashmawy [mailto:samelash@ix*.ne*.co*]
> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:28 AM
> To: Dan L. Volker; trey@ne*.co*; 'Geoff Kelafant'
> Cc: 'Tom Mount'; 'Mike Bruic'; cavers@cavers.com
> Subject: RE: Madison diving
>
> At 04:37 PM 4/6/2000 -0400, Dan L. Volker wrote:
> >Sounds like a good time to discuss MANDATORY VO2 Max testing, with
>
> Would you be kind enough to explian what there are , and where they are on
> the scale relative to the average person ? No flaming , I am genuanly
> interested .
>
> Volker ? didn't we have a dive fitness discussion ?
>
> >instructor minimums around 30 ml/kg of body weight.
> >Sure the test would be a cost and a time problem for some, but when these
> >instructors are "Responsible" for the lives they lead into a cave, this
is
> >the least they can do to certify a likelihood they will be still be alive
> to
> >lead the students back after each dive. From what I have heard about
> >Rennaker, it sounds like he would be closer to 5 or 10 ml./kg if he had
no
> >heart condition, and now that he has had an incident ( even though
> >supposedly fixed) , he may be lower still.
> >
> >Dan Volker
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
> >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:41 PM
> >To: Geoff Kelafant
> >Cc: Tom Mount; Mike Bruic; cavers@cavers.com
> >Subject: Re: Madison diving
> >
> >
> >Geoff, good points, obvoiusly Bruic is dead right and standing up for
> >it, and Tom is dead wrong and once again proving it.
> >
> >
> >Geoff Kelafant wrote:
> >>
> >> What absurdity.  "Right to work", ADA and all that other stuff doesn't
> >apply
> >> if someone isn't otherwise qualified for the job in particular.
> Actually,
> >> since none of the instructors really "work" for IANTD/CDS etc. anyway,
I
> >> don't think any of this really applies.
> >>
> >> If it did, you would need to provide the examining physician with a
> >detailed
> >> description of what his "job" actually was and what the physical
demands
> >> are.  In this case the physician should be someone well versed in
diving
> >> medicine and the particular physical demands involved, not some guy who
> is
> >> getting the wool pulled over his eyes or practices in the local doc in
a
> >> box.  I'm in the occupational medicine business and one thing I've
> learned
> >> is that patients are rarely fully truthful when their "career" is on
the
> >> line.  Most physicians are poorly prepared or unwilling to address
> >> occupational issues and even fewer have even a vague idea of the
cardiac,
> >> pulmonary and other stresses unique to diving.  A simple "note from the
> >> doctor", a doctor whose qualifications are totally unknown to you is
> >simply
> >> unacceptable.
> >>
> >> I am interested in whatever a "fitness renewal program" entails.  Is it
> >> simply a note or form?  Do they actually have to do something like a
> >stress
> >> test, running, biking,  swimming, etc.  Hmm... must be the IANTD
> >instructors
> >> I've seen were midcycle or in the remedial fitness program.
> >>
> >> When one of your instructors has a terminal event during training and
> >takes
> >> someone with him, I wonder what will happen?
> >>
> >> Geoff Kelafant MD MSPH FACOEM
> >> Board Certified Occupational Medicine
> >> US Navy Diving Medical Officer
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >> Cc: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>; <cavers@cavers.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 10:48 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Madison diving
> >>
> >> > Tom, this is the kind of duck I would expect from you. Rennaker is a
> >> > ridiculous fat slob - he just had a heart attack ( gee, I wonder
> why? ),
> >> > and his "right to work" is C R A P. The asshole retired from his
> factory
> >> > job over ten years ago, and is teaching diving on the side.
> >> >
> >> > Nice try, Tom.
> >> >
> >> > You and your organization do not know what the the word "fitness"
> means,
> >> > and the fact is that I will bet you that Rennaker's heart rate will
not
> >> > drop the requisite bare minimum 12 beats per minute in one minute
from
> >> > exertion levels that is the known marker standard for predicting  a
> >> > reasonable risk of less chance of a heart attack, let alone the 20
bpm
> >> > "comfort" level for a low risk , or the 60 bpm that my heart rate
> drops.
> >> > Forget that he is a fat slob who already had a heart attack.
> >> >
> >> > If Rennaker kills somebody now, you , the "doctor" and everyone else
is
> >> > going to lose - it is too obvious that this guy does not need to be
> >> > doing this any more, and in my opinion, he never did.
> >> >
> >> > Prospective dive students have a "right" to a fit instructor, Tom,
and
> >> > you are behaving badly for tolerating and promoting this.
> >> >
> >> > Tom Mount wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > To both of you
> >> > >
> >> > > All instructors with IANTD have to complete a MD medical and be
> signed
> >> off
> >> > > anytime their is a major illness. Bill has completed that. Bill
also
> >did
> >> the
> >> > > fitness swim requirements as well.
> >> > >
> >> > > Now I'm sure if you would like to legally challenge the doctor for
> >> signing
> >> > > him off you can do so. But remember there as a right to work law
and
> >you
> >> may
> >> > > wind up at the end of a lawsuit for you efforts from the MD and
Bill.
> >> > > We are bound to accept the determination of the MD as to Bill's
> >fitness.
> >> > >
> >> > > Second IANTD unlike any other agency has a fitness renewal program
as
> >> you
> >> > > know Mike and each instructor must complete it to be renewed. No
> other
> >> > > agency including GUE does this.
> >> > >
> >> > > This is BCC'ed to our lawyer and insurance.
> >> > >
> >> > > Respectfully yours,
> >> > > Tom Mount
> >> > > CEO IANTD World HQ
> >> > > http://www.iantd.com
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >> > > To: Mike Bruic <mikebruic@di*.co*>
> >> > > Cc: <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 6:14 PM
> >> > > Subject: Re: Madison diving
> >> > >
> >> > > > Mike Bruic wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > George, here is a copy of the letter that went out to IANTD,
> NACD,
> >> and
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > NSS/CDS. It was sent certified, return receipt, and I have the
> >> > > > > acknowledgments of receipt in my files. When Rennaker does
> >fuck-up,
> >> I
> >> > > hope
> >> > > > > this letter will help any attorney crucify these assholes.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Bruic
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >     Mike, you are pissing in the wind with Mount and the rest of
> >these
> >> > > > hand-holders. Send it to his insurance agent and to his attorney,
> >Bill
> >> > > > Turbeville. Turbeville and the insurance company will make him do
> >the
> >> > > > right thing. I'll get you the insurance agency address.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >

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