KVI wrote:

> Tom, you sure looked hard to find Stone's crappy maps - I could not find
> them until I looked everywhere after Mouth's glowing review.
>
> None of you want to get the picture here - the WKPP has spent years and
> lives exploring these caves. Stone is a pretending dillatante with a lot
> of money to blow. He spent 37 days getting that pathetic map. That
> represents nothing compared to what we have mapped.
>
> He will not see 90% of that, and he does not know it exists. Notice his
> wonder at seeing a tunnel with the mapper - he better get used to that,
> there are over 30 of them, and we smoked them all, leaving him nothing
> within human reason to explore.
>
> Tom, we run miles every time we dive there - he does miles in the basin.
> We do the same thing everywhere, everytime. We have no abortions, no
> clusters, no excuses - we get it done.
>
> We all have our own gear, we all pay our own way. These guys are a joke.
> I realize that you are all hoping for somebody  to show me up, but then
> don't you think they should start by doing what it would take to do just
> that, rather than bullshitting around like they are? What kind of
> example would it set if they did get lucky? Would it warm your little
> heart to know that it takes a million bucks, $17,000 ccr's, bells ,
> chambers, $30,000 scooters etc to get a level playing field with what I
> can do in my sleep? Do you think it is impresive that these strokes have
> not even gotten within half the distance that I went on my first dive in
> the cave ? Are you impresed that these pathetic fools have not gotten to
> where Steve Irving and Bill Gavin laid the line to in our one allotted
> dive in 1991 on TEKNA DV 3X'S AND A FREAKING STAGE?

I am impressed by the visual information presented in their map. Your maps do
not
provide the same visual information.

BTW, I found the USDCT just as easy to find as all of yours, but I do not see
anything links wise to more maps on sites other than the WKPP site.

Also, I do not think anyone is arguing that the WKPP does not hold the records,
does not know the most about the cave, etc. I know I'm not saying that. So chill
out. I said I liked thier map, as limited as it may be in scope to yours, it
provides me with a better idea of the cave. And I hope to see that map completed
to include the entire system. I don't care who does it, the WKPP, the USDCT, or
little green men from Mars.

> These guys suck , in plain English, and no amount of lying, dancing
> prancing or bullshitting will ever get them anywhere near what we do -
> ever. What we do and the way we do it is available to anyone anywhere -
> you do not need a million bucks or Jim King's money or anything else to
> do what we do in any cave, and our affilaited groups around the world
> prove that every day. What Stone is doing does nobody any good but
> Stone.
>
> Thomas A. Easop wrote:
> >
> > KVI wrote:
> >
> > > Thomas A. Easop wrote: how great the maps are, and how bad we are.
> >
> > Chill out George. I said I liked the maps, I did not say anyone was bad. As
> > for your other maps, I haven't seen them yet. I did not see links to more
> > maps at your site. I will go look.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom, the maps on Stone's web page are crap compared to our sonar maps,
> > > and we do in fact not only have 3d maps limked to our maps on U of
> > > Wyomings's site, we have wire frame and moveble maps that tell the real
> > > tale. The sonar runs we made recently are only shown in cross section,
> > > the maps on the Sun Micro machine are complete.
> > >
> > > We DID map the whole system, Tom. It has already been done. That is past
> > > tense, Tom. If you can read Stone's map, you are one cleaver guy, since
> > > I know that cave better than any peson alive and the map is garbage. His
> > > mapper obviously has little or no power at all - the dope must have the
> > > tranducers inside the hull of the scooter or something. Also, his
> > > "inertial navigation' is not working too well.
> > >
> > > I can see how you and Tom Mouth would be impressed .

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