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In a post completely devoid of meaningful content, Robert Selchow babbles on demonstrating a complete lack of intelligence thusly: [I'll ignore your meager attempts a sophomoric insults; suffice it to say that you are no George Irvine.] > I for one never saw a post wherein ANDI said it > "advocated" a > pp02 of 2.0 ata for bailout. Well, Robert-the-Twit, you apparently slept through quite a bit; let me refresh your memory: Date: 15 Sep 95 15:59:09 EDT From: Stuart Masch <75363.767@co*.co*> To: techdiver <techdiver@terra.net> Subject: ANDI ANSWERS Message-ID: <950915195908_75363.767_EHI178-1@Co*.CO*> [...] It is recommended that the PO2 contained in a bailout gas should never exceed 2.0 ata PO2 (SafeAirC 50 as a bailout gas has a maximum operational depth limit of 100 FSW (30 MSW.) Also, from _The Application of Enriched Air Mixtures_ by Ed Betts (subtitled "The Complete Users [sic] Guide [to SafeAir(tm)]"), otherwise known as the text for the ANDI Nitrox course: "Advanced level sport divers can also recieve additional benefits from utilizing SafeAir(c) [the (c) is theirs; note that they didn't use a (tm)] 50/50 as the breathing medium during the "safety stop" ... procedure. By switching to a smaller safety/bailout cylinder, commonly called a "pony", filled with SafeAir(c) 50/50 the diver elevates oxygen levels and lowers inspired nitrogen thereby eliminating nitrogen faster. ... It is recomended that the PO2 contained in a bailout gas should never exceed 2.0 ata PO2 (ie. 50/50 as a bailout gas has a maximum operational depth limit of 100 FSW (30 MSW)). ... Utilizing pony cylinders filled with enriched air mixtures, all divers (not just wreck divers), can combine a 30 year old diving practice and a 30 year old technology to achieve safer more enjoyable diving experiences. [All typos and gramatical errors theirs.] > Do you know the definition of the word advocate, > Frank? I think not. Now Robert-the-Dunce, I'm no language expert, but I do have a copy of _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_ handy, and, under "advocate", it provides the following definition: ad.vo.cate: tr.v.: To speak in favor of, recommend. See Synonyms at "support". So, even you, Robert-the-Nit would have to agree that ANDI *does*indeed* *ADVOCATE* a bailout ppO2 of 2.0 ata. (Perhaps you had better spend some more time in Remedial English.) > On the subject of diver supervision, either you are not an > instructor(who presumably would have been taught what indirect supervison > means), or you are incredibly stupid. By your own reasoning, there's not much, > in a direct supervisory way, that an instructor can do on the nitrox dives, so > what does that leave?- indirect supervision(duh!). In an amazing display of your complete lack of deduction capability, you, Robert-the-Slow, have overlooked one very important other case: perhaps no dives should be done (therefore no supervision is required). For those of you incapable of following a line of logical reasoning (listen up, Robert-the-Bonehead!), let me spell it out to you: 1) ANDI is teaching nitrox usage to divers who are already fully open water certified. 2) No new in-water diving skills are being taught. 3) The only new experience is that of breathing nitrox. 4) The only potentially new outcome of breathing nitrox is an O2 tox hit. 5) Even if an instructor is *right*there* in the water, very close to the student, there is *little* to *nothing* an instructor can do in the case of a student taking an O2 hit. With the above information now clearly deliniated, we now need to decide what the purpose of requiring a dive for nitrox certification is. Either the dive requirement provides some new experience, or it does not. If it does not, then the requirement should be eliminated (unless, of course, the real purpose is profit motive -- Hello Stuart -- in which case this logic no longer applies). If the purpose of the dive is to provide new experience, then we need to establish what experience we are providing. Well, from the above, item #4 says that the only potentially new experience would be an O2 tox hit. So by requiring the open water dives for certification, are we asking that all students try to get a chance to experience an O2 tox hit? I hope not, but if we are, then ANDI is going about things the wrong way, still (that would require the instructor -- or at least rescue divers -- in the water). So, we see that by actually *thinking* (surely a new experience for you, Robert-the-Imbicile), we can reason that the ANDI requirement for indirect supervision of nitrox training dives is flawed and internally inconsistent. > As for Robert Raimo: > > I urge all on the techdiver list to get their hands on a copy of AquaCorps' > current issue and read all about Mr. Raimo's dangerous and near-fatal diving > practices and pumped-up bravado about having survived WAYOVER THE TOP pp02's on > his recent deep air dives.Everybody's busy debating 1.6, while he's busy diving > to 350fsw on air! Despite his whining about whether it should have been printed > or not, once having read the article, I think we can all agree that HIS > CREDIBILITY IS SHOT. I for one( and I hope other rational-thinking people as > well) will never again take this clown's posts seriously. If this one > near-fatal dive of his found its way to publication, how many others that we may > never know about have not? Unlike yourself, Robert-the-Ignorant, Raimo has learned from his experiences. Though that brand of learning can be prohibitively expensive, the return can also provide great benefits, but only to one who has the capability to look at things with a rational mind free of bravado. I believe Raimo to be one of those people -- you will note that he is not a deep air advocate. Far from being a clown (unlike yourself, Robert-the-Jester), Raimo speaks with the voice of experience. > It's obvious to me that Mr. Raimo was simply "caught in the act of being > himself" by a good investigative reporter. I disagree, but it's certainly starting to look like we have caught you in the act of wacking-off, Robert-the-Wanker. > To Stuart Masch of ANDI: > > I have seen enough. You have previously posted ANDI's position on the subject > of pp02's and bailout, instructors sleeping through their responsibilities, etc. > Take it from me(who am I? - someone with at least as much self-importance as a > Frank Deutschmann!), you or any of the agencies do not have to waste your > valuable time responding *to the satisfaction* of the likes of Frank Deutschmann > or others of his ilk. Your response is your response. Well, Robert-the-BrownNose, this is just way over the top. Do you really think kissing up to Stuart's butt will get you anything? Recall that Stuart has yet to provide *any* useful discussion on this or any other subject, though others have raised some serious issues with ANDI teaching practices. OTOH, perhaps you, Robert-the-Weenie, are just affraid of Big-Bad-Stuart making good on his "legal or other action" threat. > Frank is apparently > someone who HAS to have the last word in an argument. On a more somber note, I will simply remark that the last word in this argument is "death" -- and I want no part of that word. In fact, Robert-the-Cavalier, I don't even want you to die, even though you seem to believe in certain practices that may well get you killed (such as packing a bailout gas with a ppO2 of 2.0 ata.). > It seems to me that Frank > just can't bear to let > this thread die, what with the pseudo-banishment of George, and the general > "this has worn too thin" attitude of the rest of us. Robert-the-EasilyDecieved, you have fallen right into Stuart-the-Deceptive's trap: by diverting discussion from the actual issues to the weenie issues, we have actually avoided all meaningful discussion on the actual issue -- namely, high PO2's in a bailout gas, and, separately, requiring dives for nitrox certification. You, Robert-the-Dimwit, have actually managed to cast yourself in a bit part helping out the anti-discussion forces in our little play here. -frank -- fhd@in*.ne* | Captain Starlet is indestructible; you are not. 1 212 559 5534 | Remember this -- do not try to imitate him. 1 917 992 2248 | -- Big Audio Dynamite 1 718 746 7061 | _No. 10, Upping St._, "Sightsee M.C!"
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