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George-

I don't feel I need to defend JT, he is a big boy and can do that 
himself. But I do need to call bullshit when I see it. Yes you guys 
did come up and dive with us and I appreciate it. JT appreciated it 
too, he opened his house up to both you, JJ on your visit and then 
to Andrew and Mike when they came up to teach the fundamentals 
class.

JT has bent over backwards to hear the DIR/GUE side of the story. 
Hell, we all went down there to return the favor and see how you 
guys do it. Why JT wants to butt heads with you over every little 
thing, I guess you have to ask JT,  because I don't know. I do know 
that when I did deep dives the person I wanted to have on the boat 
was JT because he sweats the details, and therein lies the devil, 
as you well know. You and several other people on this list are 
slamming JT for having a few screwed up dives. The reason you know 
about these screwed up dives is that he told you, me and everybody 
else about what happened. JT broke the "code of silence" which is 
apparently alive and well and fully enforced down there in Florida.

And there are so many assholes and idiots out there doing goofy, 
dangerous shit:

http://www.wr350.com/photos/axl%20by%20albert%20014%20small.jpg

Did you know that Mike Pizzio is involved with this clusterfuck 
waiting to happen? Where the hell is DIR now? This is the kind of 
crap you and Joe need to be hammering, not JT.

As far as this pissing match over the scooters, I am dismayed over 
a couple of things. For one I feel responsible for all the guys 
purchasing your scooter after you sold me that prototype. The guys 
saw the logic of getting a scooter for depth as, once you get one, 
you realize that a scooter is not a lazy way to get around but a 
actual piece of life support equipment. A scooter can save your ass 
on a deep dive, conserve your gas and keep you from getting bent.

And the fact is that while your scooters have the engineering down 
better than anyone else, your QA sucks and everybody had problems 
with their scooters other than me. It made me look bad and I don't 
like that any more than you do. I have no doubt in my mind that you 
stick behind your products 100% up to and including buying them 
back if the customer is not satisfied. What would be better, and 
what everybody wants, is not to ship the scooter back for a refund, 
but that the darn things are de-bugged before shipment. If we are 
to do the debugging, fine, that should be stated and it never was.

All this clutch bruhaha is not about the clutch at all. It is about 
a screw backing out allowing a sacrificial clutch component to fry 
out. Hell, one prop assembly fell apart in the water right after 
the diver entered the water. This is not encouraging stuff for 
something we consider life support equipment. As far as the guys 
were concerned they had just bought the scooter that went 18,000 ft 
and is used by some of the best divers on earth. I figure that 
problem would be  solved by just using lock-tight on this critical 
screw, the fix would be that simple.

Instead this has become a full-blown pissing match between two 
people who I like and respect and I hate to see it happen. I truly 
wish you and JT would figure out this scooter thing and make the 
"wrecker special" as reliable as the "cave special" as I'm sure it 
can be. You have some powerful proponents of the DIR system here in 
Virginia Beach and it would really be a shame if they were all 
alienated over a dumb screw.

I know that you have been around a long time, George, and I also 
know that you are almost invariably right (much to the 
consternation of many on this list). But I think you are wrong 
about JT. You two may never see eye to eye but JT is very much into 
not only himself surviving the dive but everybody else on the boat, 
within the realm of reality. Those last 5 words are very important. 
You can strive to gain true DIR precepts, but at some point you 
have to bow to reality or quit diving. It's like taking a half-step 
to a wall, you will always get closer and closer but you won't ever 
actually get there. At some point you have to deal with your 
situation and do the best you can. And JT and others up here are 
doing the best they can with what they've got.

    Jim

On Friday, August 23, 2002, at 06:49  AM, George Irvine wrote:

> Jim, a bunch of us came up there and dove with all of you and JT 
> did not
> want to hear anything from us about how we think it should be 
> done. I came
> up later and went over all of it again. Andrew G came up there and 
> did it
> one more time. JT will listen to nobody, and somebody or sombodies 
> will die
> as a result. Quit defending the guy. He is wrong, and there is no 
> hiding his
> attitude about diving. I think he is a lost cause and needs to be 
> given a
> wide berth. Even if he did things "right", his head is in a 
> dangerous place.
>
> I have been around a long time, Jim, and I have yet to be wrong about
> something like this. The best advice I can give anyone is to avoid 
> people
> who think this way.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:35 PM
> To: Joe
> Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com; trey@my*.ne*; 
> vbtech@ci*.co*; Capt
> JT
> Subject: Re: Back to the issues - Capt. CF - was Re: Dangerous 
> Idiot was
> RE: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter Support / WAS - Cheap
> parts?
>
>
> Hey Joe, you are down there and I am up here. I can state without
> reservation that you don't know what in the fuck you are talking about.
>
> Believe me I know what it's like sitting behind a keyboard and carping
> at people. But at least I do a half-assed attempt to get the facts
> straight, something you obviously have not done.
>
> If you have a problem with JT you need to come up here and dive and
> show us how it's done. If you don't want to do that then why don't you
> shut the fuck up.
>
> If you can prove to me that you have never done an deep dive on
> anything other than a perfect boat with perfect support and perfect
> partners and every single one of your dives have been perfect and error
> free then, to use another oft stated saw; "I will kiss your ass in
> Macey's window".
>
> What I'd like to hear from you (christ, from *anybody* south of
> Morehead City) of one of your "less than perfect" dives, how you
> survived it and what lessons you learned. I doubt we will hear anything
> like this from you as it take courage to admit your mistakes. I don't
> think you have the balls to do it.
>
> People tell me that you are a super experienced, ultra accomplished
> diver. But you never offer one piece of advice, no data, not one single
> lesson learned. All you can do is sit behind your keyboard and do this
> vendetta against me, JT or anybody else you happen to dislike.
>
> How about belaying the BS and give us some information. Give us a "I
> learned about diving from that" story. If you truly have the track
> record everybody says you do, I will bet you have quite a few.
>
>     Jim
>
> On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 09:27  PM, Joe wrote:
>
>> Dear Capt. CF:
>>
>> Since you are quite obviously an aberration resulting from generations
>> of
>> inbreeding, I will help you along here by redirecting your limited
>> attention
>> span to the issues originally discussed.  Please uncross your eyes if
>> that
>> is possible.
>>
>> Please explain to the list which is worse, having a chase boat which
>> may or
>> may not work stowed on the top deck of the dive boat while anchored on
>> a
>> dive, OR, the compounding of this stupidity by putting decompression
>> bottles
>> and a hangbar under the boat while the Captain sleeps.
>>
>> Or, perhaps you claim that you no longer do this and that the
>> chaseboat is
>> deployed in good working order before divers enter the water and 
>> you no
>> longer irresponsibly leave it on the top deck in a state of disrepair,
>> making the effective rescue of a distressed diver next to impossible?
>> Which
>> is it?  Please tell us.
>>
>> While I am at it, please explain to everyone why the Miss Lindsey and
>> its
>> owner are not welcome in the Bahamas anymore.  Shall I go on?
>>
>> I think I will.
>>
>> Please tell us about the non commercial, commercial dive that you got
>> paid
>> for which resulted in the death of Tai Wilkerson.  Please tell us who
>> was
>> captain of the boat that day and how he complied with all of the OSHA
>> regs
>> re a commercial dive operation.  Tell us how you had the required on
>> board
>> recompression chamber and how it worked like your chase boat.  Also
>> tell us
>> what in water communications were in place and what were the depths
>> and the
>> gases being used?  Who was Tai's buddy and what was his experience
>> level?
>> Isn't it true that this was his deepest dive ever?  Isn't it also true
>> that
>> when Tai got into trouble his buddy rescued him by shooting him to the
>> surface like a Polaris missile?  Tell us how you presided over this in
>> your
>> usual professional way.  Don't bother denying it.  We all know what
>> happened.  For a guy that just tells the truth you sure do "lair" a
>> lot.
>>
>> You say I am a "lair" and you don't smoke dope anymore.  Then why is
>> it that
>> you go through life in a state of perpetual dyslexic confusion
>> looking like a Jerry Garcia groupie.  And why is it that you have that
>> distinct ashen pallor of death that most druggies get after many years
>> of
>> continued abuse.  Is it your liver or the inbreeding?  Or have you
>> fried so
>> many brain cells that you can no longer be sober and look normal?
>>
>> Your feeble attempts to discredit me and others is a sham to avoid the
>> above
>> questions which you so ignorantly refuse to address.  As I have said
>> before,
>> you do not qualify to be my tank or towel boy.
>>
>> Capt. CF, your stupidity never ceases to amaze me.  Do you really
>> think that
>> your little "private email" would shock or upset me?  George and I
>> know each
>> other 15 years.  I am no more bothered by that "private email" than he
>> would
>> be were the reverse to happen.  It is internet rhetoric.  Nothing 
>> more,
>> nothing less.  The difference between you and myself is that I 
>> see good
>> information and recognize it.  You see it and reject it because you
>> are mad
>> at whomever gives you the advice.  I will solve the problem right now.
>>  JT,
>> PLEASE, PLEASE, DON'T SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD.
>>
>> Capt. CF, you really need to come down from the tree and put away the
>> banjo.
>> People are desperately trying to give you good advice and information
>> and
>> you continuously reject it and reliably do the opposite.  You are a
>> danger
>> to all around you.  Change your ways.  Give up the dope.  Get into
>> therapy.
>>
>> All of the above said, I seriously question how ANY lucid business
>> person
>> would allow you to take charge of the lives of their passengers.
>> Given all
>> of the sound advice you have so ignorantly rejected, were an incident
>> to
>> occur I shudder to think of the legal ramifications.  Your obvious
>> defense
>> would be "Diminished Capacity" which of course you would easily get
>> but only
>> at the expense of your employers, who would undoubtedly be held
>> criminally
>> negligent.
>>
>> Dive safe, be safe.
>>
>> Your friend.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "George Irvine" <trey@my*.ne*>
>> To: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>; "Joe" <joe@po*.co*>;
>> <trey@my*.ne*>; "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:52 AM
>> Subject: Dangerous Idiot was RE: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's
>> Scooter Support / WAS - Cheap parts?
>>
>>
>>> JT, besides you being a petty little wimp, you just can not stick to
>>> the
>>> subject ( how to safely and properly do these dives) , and you are
>>> the one
>>> who is a "lair". I know Joe for 15 years. Still waiting for him to
>>> "light
>>> up".
>>>
>>> When these guys ( AUE ) first started out I had a big problem with
>>> some of
>>> their stroke buddies and told them why, and I told them how I would
>>> do the
>>> dives. They did not like my "style", but they knew I was right about
>>> the
>>> diving part, and they eventually got rid of the strokes.
>>>
>>> They did not like me any better than you do. The difference is that
>>> these
>>> guys are not morons like you, are not big egos like you ( in your 
>>> case
>>> totally undeserved), and they have a legitimate program and are not
>>> out
>>> trying to prove something like you are.
>>>
>>> You can keep digging up all the "private" emails you want, the 
>>> fact is
>> that
>>> right here and now you are a complete stroke and everyone can see it.
>>> You
>>> want some "private" emails from Kane and Georgitsis about how
>>> hopeless you
>>> are? How about from anyone who has ever seen you in the water or seen
>>> your
>>> act?
>>>
>>> The facts are that you do now know what the hell you are doing, you
>>> are
>>> risking people's lives with your dangerous idiocy, you can't dive at
>>> all,
>>> you are an obvious moron, and you have no prospects of changing 
>>> any of
>> that.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:31 PM
>>> To: Joe; trey@my*.ne*; Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
>>> Subject: Re: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter Support /
>>> WAS
>>> - Cheap parts?
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe, have you been taking lesson on being a lair from G, not one
>>> thing is
>>> true in this post. One thing about not telling the truth on a post.
>>> Everyone who sees you will know mine was right on, no hiding that
>>> stomach,
>>> the height, curly hair, or the old face. And if they watch you long
>>> enough
>>> you will light up.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   At 11:09 AM 8/21/02 -0700, Joe wrote:
>>>> Good morning JT:
>>>>
>>>> It seems the THC in your system has finally taken its toll.  You are
>>>> confused as I not only do not smoke but abhor being around smoke.
>>>>
>>>> You seem a bit cranky.  Perhaps you should have some bran with your
>> banana.
>>>> They say that helps.  I was also wondering, do you have an opposable
>> thumb?
>>>>
>>>> I hear you had some problems on the Miss Lindsay this Sunday.  Why
>>>> do you
>>>> insist on leaving the chase boat inaccessible and untested on the
>>>> upper
>>> deck
>>>> when you tie in?  Don't you realize you are endangering everyone in
>>>> the
>>>> water when you do that?  One day your luck will run out.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
>>>> To: <joe@po*.co*>; <trey@my*.ne*>;
>>>> "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com"
>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:33 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter Support /
>>>> WAS -
>>>> Cheap parts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I hit the nail on the head with that one, bananas are good for you.
>> You
>>>>> just keep on smoking those cancer sticks, dicky do boy........
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   At 08:54 PM 8/19/02 -0400, joe@po*.co* wrote:
>>>>>> JT, have a bananna.  You'll feel better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards from your friend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
>>>>>> To: <joe@po*.co*>; <trey@my*.ne*>;
>> "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com"
>>>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 4:54 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter 
>>>>>> Support /
>>> WAS -
>>>>>> Cheap parts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had dinner at an Italian restaurant over the weekend and there
>> was
>>>> this
>>>>>>> little curly haired  old guy who looked like a woman does in her
>>> 8th
>>>>>> month
>>>>>>> with that stomach sticking out there, sitting at the bar enjoying
>>> his
>>>>>> drink
>>>>>>> and cigarettes. Kinda reminded me of that guy Joe in the AUE
>> group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     At 03:44 PM 8/17/02 -0400, joe@po*.co* wrote:
>>>>>>>> Funny thing about the monkey.  I ran into Marguerite the other
>> day
>>>> and
>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>> told me she had taught him to shave his body.  He figured he
>> could
>>>> pass
>>>>>>>> himself off as a person and ran away to Hollywood to star in the
>>> next
>>>>>>>> version of Planet of The Apes.  When he found out they weren't
>>> doing
>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> sequel he moved to Virginia Beach where he took a job as a boat
>>>> captain
>>>>>>>> named JT.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "George Irvine" <trey@my*.ne*>
>>>>>>>> To: "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 10:08 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter 
>>>>>>>> Support
>> /
>>>> WAS -
>>>>>>>> Cheap parts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JT, the bottom line is that you are not qualified to comment
>> on
>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> diving, and you have proven it repeatedly. You are a bad
>>> imitation
>>>> of
>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> the rest of us do so easily and a complete stroke by anyone's
>>>> measure,
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> attitude to execution. Anyone who has seen you in the water
>>> knows
>>>> you
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> pathetic, anyone who had read your slop on here knows you are
>> an
>>>>>>>> illiterate
>>>>>>>>> moron.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just as in  Rodney's motor thing with Christina, had she paid
>>> Rod
>>>> for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> fast motor, she would have had one to start with. You are a
>>> nickel
>>>>>> rocket
>>>>>>>>> of massive proportions, and it shows in all you say , do , and
>>>> use.
>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>> caught Cobb bailing out of diving ( the right thing for anyone
>>> to
>>>> do
>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> subject to your perpetual risk creation) and got his prototype
>>>> scooter
>>>>>>>>> cheap, so either sell it back to me or shut up. There is no
>> way
>>>> any of
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> would have paid for the clutch, and you would not need it if
>> you
>>>> were
>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> so incompetent .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You have an obvious reading problem. I said I bought $8,000
>>> worth
>>>> of
>>>>>> Arnie
>>>>>>>>> clutches that I thought I would never get rid of, since most
>>>> people do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> need them. I still have more than I will likely be able to
>>>>>> legitimately
>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>> anyone to buy. Scooters are my life support, and staying
>>>> constantly
>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> with them keeps me and
>>>>>>>>> my team alive in the scooter dependent diving we do , and
>>> selling
>>>> them
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> other groups helps finance the WKPP exploration activities. If
>>> you
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> like that, too bad - for people like you there is Rodney. If
>> you
>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> the clutch , complain to Mako. In addition, you moron, we do
>> not
>>>> use
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> wreck scooter in the WKPP in the first place, we use the PVC
>>>> standard
>>>>>>>>> version.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most people buy the clutches directly form Arnie or NE Scuba.
>>> The
>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> thing that needs to be known about this is that the washers
>> for
>>>> the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> clutch will not work with the Arnie , so when they get them
>>>> installed
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> , I use the correct washers. I am sure you are going to make
>>> this
>>>>>> mistake
>>>>>>>>> if you can scrape together the 100 bucks or whatever he
>> charges
>>>> for
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe you could make up a cardboard sign that says. "Will work
>>> for
>>>>>> clutch"
>>>>>>>>> and stand at a busy streetcorner and collect the money to buy
>>> one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This list for you is an effort to make yourself look like a
>>> tough
>>>> guy,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> all you are doing is making yourself look like one of Jerry's
>>>> Kids.
>>>>>> Your
>>>>>>>>> constant efforts to fight with me are not going to work, no
>>> matter
>>>> how
>>>>>>>>> personal you try to get. You have proven yourself to be an
>>>> incapable
>>>>>> diver
>>>>>>>>> with a stroke attitude who has almost nobody left willing to
>>> risk
>>>>>> diving
>>>>>>>>> with you and certainly nobody willing to listen to you any
>> more.
>>>> You
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> incapable of learning anything, and I just hope you don't kill
>>>> anyone,
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>> yourself, since the assholes would claim it to be a "DIR
>> death."
>>>> even
>>>>>>>>> though you have no clue what DIR is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to
>> get
>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> water"
>>>>>>> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>>>>>>>   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
>>>>>>> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have 
>>>>> to get
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>> water"
>>>>> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>>>>>   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
>>>>> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get
>>> in
>> the
>>> water"
>>> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>>>   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
>>> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to 
>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>
>

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George-


I don't feel I need to defend JT, he is a big boy and can do that
himself. But I do need to call bullshit when I see it. Yes you guys
did come up and dive with us and I appreciate it. JT appreciated it
too, he opened his house up to both you, JJ on your visit and then to
Andrew and Mike when they came up to teach the fundamentals class.


JT has bent over backwards to hear the DIR/GUE side of the story.
Hell, we all went down there to return the favor and see how you guys
do it. Why JT wants to butt heads with you over every little thing, I
guess you have to ask JT,  because I don't know. I do know that when I
did deep dives the person I wanted to have on the boat was JT because
he sweats the details, and therein lies the devil, as you well know.
You and several other people on this list are slamming JT for having a
few screwed up dives. The reason you know about these screwed up dives
is that he told you, me and everybody else about what happened. JT
broke the "code of silence" which is apparently alive and well and
fully enforced down there in Florida.


And there are so many assholes and idiots out there doing goofy,
dangerous shit:


<underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param>http://www.wr350.com/
photos/axl%20by%20albert%20014%20small.jpg

</color></underline>

Did you know that Mike Pizzio is involved with this clusterfuck
waiting to happen? Where the hell is DIR now? This is the kind of crap
you and Joe need to be hammering, not JT.


As far as this pissing match over the scooters, I am dismayed over a
couple of things. For one I feel responsible for all the guys
purchasing your scooter after you sold me that prototype. The guys saw
the logic of getting a scooter for depth as, once you get one, you
realize that a scooter is not a lazy way to get around but a actual
piece of life support equipment. A scooter can save your ass on a deep
dive, conserve your gas and keep you from getting bent.


And the fact is that while your scooters have the engineering down
better than anyone else, your QA sucks and everybody had problems with
their scooters other than me. It made me look bad and I don't like
that any more than you do. I have no doubt in my mind that you stick
behind your products 100% up to and including buying them back if the
customer is not satisfied. What would be better, and what everybody
wants, is not to ship the scooter back for a refund, but that the darn
things are de-bugged before shipment. If we are to do the debugging,
fine, that should be stated and it never was.


All this clutch bruhaha is not about the clutch at all. It is about a
screw backing out allowing a sacrificial clutch component to fry out.
Hell, one prop assembly fell apart in the water right after the diver
entered the water. This is not encouraging stuff for something we
consider life support equipment. As far as the guys were concerned
they had just bought the scooter that went 18,000 ft and is used by
some of the best divers on earth. I figure that problem would be 
solved by just using lock-tight on this critical screw, the fix would
be that simple.


Instead this has become a full-blown pissing match between two people
who I like and respect and I hate to see it happen. I truly wish you
and JT would figure out this scooter thing and make the "wrecker
special" as reliable as the "cave special" as I'm sure it can be. You
have some powerful proponents of the DIR system here in Virginia Beach
and it would really be a shame if they were all alienated over a dumb
screw.


I know that you have been around a long time, George, and I also know
that you are almost invariably right (much to the consternation of
many on this list). But I think you are wrong about JT. You two may
never see eye to eye but JT is very much into not only himself
surviving the dive but everybody else on the boat, within the realm of
reality. Those last 5 words are very important. You can strive to gain
true DIR precepts, but at some point you have to bow to reality or
quit diving. It's like taking a half-step to a wall, you will always
get closer and closer but you won't ever actually get there. At some
point you have to deal with your situation and do the best you can.
And JT and others up here are doing the best they can with what
they've got.


   Jim


On Friday, August 23, 2002, at 06:49  AM, George Irvine wrote:


<excerpt>Jim, a bunch of us came up there and dove with all of you and
JT did not

want to hear anything from us about how we think it should be done. I
came

up later and went over all of it again. Andrew G came up there and did
it

one more time. JT will listen to nobody, and somebody or sombodies
will die

as a result. Quit defending the guy. He is wrong, and there is no
hiding his

attitude about diving. I think he is a lost cause and needs to be
given a

wide berth. Even if he did things "right", his head is in a dangerous
place.


I have been around a long time, Jim, and I have yet to be wrong about

something like this. The best advice I can give anyone is to avoid
people

who think this way.


-----Original Message-----

From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]

Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:35 PM

To: Joe

Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com; trey@my*.ne*; vbtech@ci*.co*;
Capt

JT

Subject: Re: Back to the issues - Capt. CF - was Re: Dangerous Idiot
was

RE: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter Support / WAS - Cheap

parts?



Hey Joe, you are down there and I am up here. I can state without

reservation that you don't know what in the fuck you are talking about.


Believe me I know what it's like sitting behind a keyboard and carping

at people. But at least I do a half-assed attempt to get the facts

straight, something you obviously have not done.


If you have a problem with JT you need to come up here and dive and

show us how it's done. If you don't want to do that then why don't you

shut the fuck up.


If you can prove to me that you have never done an deep dive on

anything other than a perfect boat with perfect support and perfect

partners and every single one of your dives have been perfect and error

free then, to use another oft stated saw; "I will kiss your ass in

Macey's window".


What I'd like to hear from you (christ, from *anybody* south of

Morehead City) of one of your "less than perfect" dives, how you

survived it and what lessons you learned. I doubt we will hear anything

like this from you as it take courage to admit your mistakes. I don't

think you have the balls to do it.


People tell me that you are a super experienced, ultra accomplished

diver. But you never offer one piece of advice, no data, not one single

lesson learned. All you can do is sit behind your keyboard and do this

vendetta against me, JT or anybody else you happen to dislike.


How about belaying the BS and give us some information. Give us a "I

learned about diving from that" story. If you truly have the track

record everybody says you do, I will bet you have quite a few.


    Jim


On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 09:27  PM, Joe wrote:


<excerpt>Dear Capt. CF:


Since you are quite obviously an aberration resulting from generations

of

inbreeding, I will help you along here by redirecting your limited

attention

span to the issues originally discussed.  Please uncross your eyes if

that

is possible.


Please explain to the list which is worse, having a chase boat which

may or

may not work stowed on the top deck of the dive boat while anchored on

a

dive, OR, the compounding of this stupidity by putting decompression

bottles

and a hangbar under the boat while the Captain sleeps.


Or, perhaps you claim that you no longer do this and that the

chaseboat is

deployed in good working order before divers enter the water and you no

longer irresponsibly leave it on the top deck in a state of disrepair,

making the effective rescue of a distressed diver next to impossible?

Which

is it?  Please tell us.


While I am at it, please explain to everyone why the Miss Lindsey and

its

owner are not welcome in the Bahamas anymore.  Shall I go on?


I think I will.


Please tell us about the non commercial, commercial dive that you got

paid

for which resulted in the death of Tai Wilkerson.  Please tell us who

was

captain of the boat that day and how he complied with all of the OSHA

regs

re a commercial dive operation.  Tell us how you had the required on

board

recompression chamber and how it worked like your chase boat.  Also

tell us

what in water communications were in place and what were the depths

and the

gases being used?  Who was Tai's buddy and what was his experience

level?

Isn't it true that this was his deepest dive ever?  Isn't it also true

that

when Tai got into trouble his buddy rescued him by shooting him to the

surface like a Polaris missile?  Tell us how you presided over this in

your

usual professional way.  Don't bother denying it.  We all know what

happened.  For a guy that just tells the truth you sure do "lair" a

lot.


You say I am a "lair" and you don't smoke dope anymore.  Then why is

it that

you go through life in a state of perpetual dyslexic confusion

looking like a Jerry Garcia groupie.  And why is it that you have that

distinct ashen pallor of death that most druggies get after many years

of

continued abuse.  Is it your liver or the inbreeding?  Or have you

fried so

many brain cells that you can no longer be sober and look normal?


Your feeble attempts to discredit me and others is a sham to avoid the

above

questions which you so ignorantly refuse to address.  As I have said

before,

you do not qualify to be my tank or towel boy.


Capt. CF, your stupidity never ceases to amaze me.  Do you really

think that

your little "private email" would shock or upset me?  George and I

know each

other 15 years.  I am no more bothered by that "private email" than he

would

be were the reverse to happen.  It is internet rhetoric.  Nothing more,

nothing less.  The difference between you and myself is that I see good

information and recognize it.  You see it and reject it because you

are mad

at whomever gives you the advice.  I will solve the problem right now.

 JT,

PLEASE, PLEASE, DON'T SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD.


Capt. CF, you really need to come down from the tree and put away the

banjo.

People are desperately trying to give you good advice and information

and

you continuously reject it and reliably do the opposite.  You are a

danger

to all around you.  Change your ways.  Give up the dope.  Get into

therapy.


All of the above said, I seriously question how ANY lucid business

person

would allow you to take charge of the lives of their passengers.

Given all

of the sound advice you have so ignorantly rejected, were an incident

to

occur I shudder to think of the legal ramifications.  Your obvious

defense

would be "Diminished Capacity" which of course you would easily get

but only

at the expense of your employers, who would undoubtedly be held

criminally

negligent.


Dive safe, be safe.


Your friend.


Joe






----- Original Message -----

From: "George Irvine" <<trey@my*.ne*>

To: "Capt JT" <<captjt@mi*.co*>; "Joe" <<joe@po*.co*>;

<<trey@my*.ne*>; "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <<techdiver@aquanaut.com>

Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:52 AM

Subject: Dangerous Idiot was RE: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's

Scooter Support / WAS - Cheap parts?



<excerpt>JT, besides you being a petty little wimp, you just can not
stick to

the

subject ( how to safely and properly do these dives) , and you are

the one

who is a "lair". I know Joe for 15 years. Still waiting for him to

"light

up".


When these guys ( AUE ) first started out I had a big problem with

some of

their stroke buddies and told them why, and I told them how I would

do the

dives. They did not like my "style", but they knew I was right about

the

diving part, and they eventually got rid of the strokes.


They did not like me any better than you do. The difference is that

these

guys are not morons like you, are not big egos like you ( in your case

totally undeserved), and they have a legitimate program and are not

out

trying to prove something like you are.


You can keep digging up all the "private" emails you want, the fact is

</excerpt>that

<excerpt>right here and now you are a complete stroke and everyone can
see it.

You

want some "private" emails from Kane and Georgitsis about how

hopeless you

are? How about from anyone who has ever seen you in the water or seen

your

act?


The facts are that you do now know what the hell you are doing, you

are

risking people's lives with your dangerous idiocy, you can't dive at

all,

you are an obvious moron, and you have no prospects of changing any of

</excerpt>that.

<excerpt>

-----Original Message-----

From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]

Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:31 PM

To: Joe; trey@my*.ne*; Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com

Subject: Re: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter Support /

WAS

- Cheap parts?



Joe, have you been taking lesson on being a lair from G, not one

thing is

true in this post. One thing about not telling the truth on a post.

Everyone who sees you will know mine was right on, no hiding that

stomach,

the height, curly hair, or the old face. And if they watch you long

enough

you will light up.....








  At 11:09 AM 8/21/02 -0700, Joe wrote:

<excerpt>Good morning JT:


It seems the THC in your system has finally taken its toll.  You are

confused as I not only do not smoke but abhor being around smoke.


You seem a bit cranky.  Perhaps you should have some bran with your

</excerpt></excerpt>banana.

<excerpt><excerpt>They say that helps.  I was also wondering, do you
have an opposable

</excerpt></excerpt>thumb?

<excerpt><excerpt>

I hear you had some problems on the Miss Lindsay this Sunday.  Why

do you

insist on leaving the chase boat inaccessible and untested on the

upper

</excerpt>deck

<excerpt>when you tie in?  Don't you realize you are endangering
everyone in

the

water when you do that?  One day your luck will run out.


Cheers.


Joe


----- Original Message -----

From: "Capt JT" <<captjt@mi*.co*>

To: <<joe@po*.co*>; <<trey@my*.ne*>;

"Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com"

<<techdiver@aquanaut.com>

Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:33 PM

Subject: Re: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter Support /

WAS -

Cheap parts?



<excerpt>I hit the nail on the head with that one, bananas are good
for you.

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>You

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>just keep on smoking those cancer sticks,
dicky do boy........




  At 08:54 PM 8/19/02 -0400, joe@po*.co* wrote:

<excerpt>JT, have a bananna.  You'll feel better.


Regards from your friend.


Joe


----- Original Message -----

From: "Capt JT" <<captjt@mi*.co*>

To: <<joe@po*.co*>; <<trey@my*.ne*>;

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>"Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com"

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><<techdiver@aquanaut.com>

Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 4:54 PM

Subject: Re: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter Support /

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>WAS -

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>Cheap parts?



<excerpt>I had dinner at an Italian restaurant over the weekend and
there

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>was

<excerpt><excerpt>this

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>little curly haired  old guy who looked
like a woman does in her

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>8th

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>month

<excerpt>with that stomach sticking out there, sitting at the bar
enjoying

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>his

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>drink

<excerpt>and cigarettes. Kinda reminded me of that guy Joe in the AUE

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>group.

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>

    At 03:44 PM 8/17/02 -0400, joe@po*.co* wrote:

<excerpt>Funny thing about the monkey.  I ran into Marguerite the other

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>da
y

<excerpt><excerpt>and

<excerpt><excerpt>she

<excerpt><excerpt>told me she had taught him to shave his body.  He
figured he

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>co
uld

<excerpt><excerpt>pass

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>himself off as a person and ran
away to Hollywood to star in the

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>next

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>version of Planet
of The
Apes.  When he found out they weren't

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>doing

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>another

<excerpt><excerpt>sequel he moved to Virginia Beach where he took a
job as a boat

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>captain

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>named JT.




----- Original Message -----

From: "George Irvine" <<trey@my*.ne*>

To: "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <<techdiver@aquanaut.com>

Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 10:08 AM

Subject: RE: Marguerite's Monkey was RE: George's Scooter Support

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>/

<excerpt><excerpt>WAS -

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>Cheap parts?



<excerpt>JT, the bottom line is that you are not qualified to comment

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>on

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>anything

<excerpt><excerpt>in

<excerpt>diving, and you have proven it repeatedly. You are a bad

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>im
itation

<excerpt>of

<excerpt><excerpt>what

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>the rest of us do so easily and a complete
stroke by anyone's

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>measure,

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>from

<excerpt>attitude to execution. Anyone who has seen you in the water

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>kn
ows

<excerpt>you

<excerpt><excerpt>are

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>pathetic, anyone who had read your slop on
here knows you are

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>an

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>illitera
te

<excerpt>moron.


Just as in  Rodney's motor thing with Christina, had she paid

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>Ro
d

<excerpt>for

<excerpt><excerpt>a

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>fast motor, she would have had one to start
with. You are a

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>ni
ckel

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>rocket

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>of massive proportions, and it shows in all
you say , do , and

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>use.

<excerpt><excerpt>You

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>caught Cobb bailing out of diving ( the
right thing for anyone

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>to

<excerpt>do

<excerpt><excerpt>who

<excerpt><excerpt>is

<excerpt>subject to your perpetual risk creation) and got his prototype

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>scooter

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>cheap, so either
sell it
back to me or shut up. There is no

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>way

<excerpt><excerpt>any of

<excerpt><excerpt>you

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>would have paid for the clutch, and you
would not need it if

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>you

<excerpt><excerpt>were

<excerpt><excerpt>not

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>so incompetent .


You have an obvious reading problem. I said I bought $8,000

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>wo
rth

<excerpt>of

<excerpt><excerpt>Arnie

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>clutches that I thought I would never get
rid of, since most

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>people do

<excerpt><excerpt>not

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>need them. I still have more than I will
likely be able to

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>legitimately

<excerpt><excerpt>ask

<excerpt>anyone to buy. Scooters are my life support, and staying

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>constantly

<excerpt><excerpt>hands

<excerpt><excerpt>on

<excerpt>with them keeps me and

my team alive in the scooter dependent diving we do , and

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>se
lling

<excerpt>them

<excerpt><excerpt>to

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>other groups helps finance the WKPP
exploration activities. If

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>yo
u

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>don't

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>like that, too bad - for people like you
there is Rodney. If

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>you

<excerpt><excerpt>don't

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>like

<excerpt>the clutch , complain to Mako. In addition, you moron, we do

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>not

<excerpt><excerpt>use

<excerpt><excerpt>the

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>wreck scooter in the WKPP in the first
place, we use the PVC

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>standard

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>version.


Most people buy the clutches directly form Arnie or NE Scuba.

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>Th
e

<excerpt>only

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>thing that needs to
be
known about this is that the washers

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>for

<excerpt><excerpt>the

<excerpt><excerpt>other

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>clutch will not work with the Arnie , so
when they get them

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>installed

<excerpt><excerpt>by

<excerpt><excerpt>me

<excerpt>, I use the correct washers. I am sure you are going to make

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>th
is

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>mistake

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>if you can scrape together the 100 bucks or
whatever he

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>charges

<excerpt><excerpt>for

<excerpt><excerpt>them.

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>Maybe you could make up a cardboard sign
that says. "Will work

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>fo
r

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>clutch"

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>and stand at a busy streetcorner and
collect the money to buy

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>on
e.

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>

This list for you is an effort to make yourself look like a

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>to
ugh

<excerpt>guy,

<excerpt><excerpt>but

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>all you are doing is making yourself look
like one of Jerry's

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>Kids.

<excerpt><excerpt>Your

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>constant efforts to fight with me are not
going to work, no

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>ma
tter

<excerpt>how

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>personal you try to
get.
You have proven yourself to be an

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>incapable

<excerpt><excerpt>diver

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>with a stroke attitude who has almost
nobody left willing to

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>ri
sk

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>diving

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>with you and certainly nobody willing to
listen to you any

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>more.

<excerpt><excerpt>You

<excerpt><excerpt>are

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>incapable of learning anything, and I just
hope you don't kill

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>anyone,

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>even

<excerpt>yourself, since the assholes would claim it to be a "DIR

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>&l
t;/excerpt>death."

<excerpt><excerpt>even

<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>though you have no
clue
what DIR is.


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<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>


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<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>


"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>get

<excerpt><excerpt>in

<excerpt><excerpt>the

<excerpt>water"

Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more

  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/

Email     captjt@mi*.co*



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<excerpt><excerpt><excerpt>


</excerpt></excerpt>


"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get

</excerpt></excerpt></excerpt>in

<excerpt><excerpt>the

<excerpt>water"

Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more

  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/

Email     captjt@mi*.co*





</excerpt></excerpt>


"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get

in

</excerpt>the

<excerpt>water"

Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more

  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/

Email     captjt@mi*.co*



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