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At 07:33 PM 7/26/02 -0400, George Irvine wrote: >Jim, real easy - if the boat is live, you don't need jack shit. >It is so >simple. Off set the boat from the upline, make it releasable, and don't hang >things from it. You should have a second boat by doing it this way. I know you and I have been discussing this in private about the trip YOU invited VBtech on and you have wonderfully done your side step again and put the blame on Dan Volker for picking the boat and operator. On our dive(that you invited us on) we did a 200ft wreck dive by dive bombing it, then a drift deco. There were 15 divers doing the dive, everyone had drifted apart and were decoing off liftbags nearly 1.5 miles apart. Rick and I were the last to get picked up and for nearly 20 minutes could never even see the boat. The bad part was this was a single engine boat and shortly after we boarded the boat broke down and we had to be towed in. What if it had broken down when we were in the water, what if one diver had a problem and needed help, but the boat was at the wrong end of that 1.5 miles getting other divers. This was the trip you were to show us how you do it. You can check my site for the photos www.capt-jt.com in photo gallery" 2000 3/3-5 VBtech meets the WKPP", if your memory is fading ( I think it is just twisted myself). If you are doing drift decos you need a twin engine boat or 2 single engine ones, everyone must be on the same dive plan and drifting on a single fixed line together if it is a tech dive (rec divers can come straight up and if the boat is not broke down can be picked up( still should be a twin engine boat for all drift dives). If one dumbass does not come back to that line, then several things can go wrong, the hooked not pulled and everyone will be hanging in the current or let go and drift apart or the lone guy is drifting away or left ect........ No matter if the dive is drifting or secured to the wreck, the dumbass who does not stick to the plan will be the cause of all problems. >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] >Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 5:13 PM >To: Joe >Cc: Christian Gerzner; techdiver@aquanaut.com >Subject: Re: VBTech vs. Nova Tech > > >Well guess what Joe, the ML is better equipped and ready to handle >emergencies than all the dive boats I have ever been on with the >exception of Capt. Leo's boats down there in West Palm. (I liked his >idea of a chase boat, he takes *both* of his dive boats out on a tech >dive, one acting as chase. But then the wrecks in West Palm are 15 >minutes away). > >What boats do you dive off of? Do these boats all deploy their chase >boat on every dive? Are all in perfect condition? Is the Capt and crew >full time professional salaried employees? When you think about it you >really should not dive off of any boat that does not have a helo >platform on it. Or for that matter an on-board chamber. > >Joe, if you dive off of boats without a helopad, an on-board chamber, >satellite phone, underwater camera system and physician on board, then >I think you are a deranged lunatic and should not only wake up but also >seek medical help. Just where do you draw the line? If you don' t think >an dive boat needs any of the above items then please explain why? The >commercial divers sure think so, so does the Navy. Why not all divers? >Explain that one to me, please. > > Jim > >On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 07:34 PM, Joe wrote: > > >>>> On the ML the zodiac is on the upper deck with a small boom > >>>> winch to deploy/sto the unit. It is rarely used, and you now what > >>>> >>>that > > means as far at the motor in concerned. > > > > That's as good as not having one. You vote with your dollars. If they > > won't deploy a chase boat and they won't live boat it you stay home. > > > >>>> When JT does a serious dive he makes sure the chase boat is > >>>> >>>gassed up > > and running before we leave the dock. Then at the site it >>>is deployed > > into the water. > > > > Every dive is a serious dive. > > > >>>> But if you take it upon yourself to demand that the chase is up and > >>>> running and deployed or you won't go out on the dive then either it > >>>> will be or you won't dive. It's your ass and your decision. > > > > There is no decision. If the dive operator won't do what you want you > > find > > one that will. Use your collective buying power and don't buy into the > > crap > > that it is too difficult to do it your way. This stuff is real easy if > > you > > bother to dot the "I"'s and cross the "T"'s. > > > >>>> For those who don't know it's a real bitch to launch the zodiac on > >>>> the ML, and even then it is doubtful the motor will start). > > > > That is pathetic. If you had a real in water emergency on that boat by > > the > > time you could deal with it the victim would most likely be dead. > > > > Jim, over the years you have been outspoken on these lists. You have > > ruthlessly slammed people for doing stupid things in the hopes that it > > will > > wake them up and yet you routinely patronize a boat that doesn't > > maintain > > the equipment necessary to conduct the dives safely. Do they have life > > jackets? I am amazed that anyone would do this. > > > > Well I am doing my good deed for the day. WAKE UP!!! This whole > > scenario > > you describe is an accident waiting to happen. It seems as though you > > guys > > are going out of your way to make it dangerous and difficult. > > > > Regards. > > > > Joe > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*> > > To: "Christian Gerzner" <christiang@in*.co*.au*> > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 7:01 AM > > Subject: Re: VBTech vs. Nova Tech > > > > > >> I suppose that if you are doing a dive where a chase boat is probably > >> not going to be needed, then you the diveboat won't deploy the > >> chaseboat. On the ML the zodiac is on the upper deck with a small boom > >> winch to deploy/sto the unit. It is rarely used, and you now what that > >> means as far at the motor in concerned. When JT does a serious dive he > >> makes sure the chase boat is gassed up and running before we leave the > >> dock. Then at the site it is deployed into the water. > >> > >> If your argument is that the chase boat should be deployed on each and > >> every dive, I agree it would be a better thing. The problem is > >> convincing the diver operator to do that on dives you don' t go out on. > >> But if you take it upon yourself to demand that the chase is up and > >> running and deployed or you won't go out on the dive then either it > >> will > >> be or you won't dive. It's your ass and your decision. > >> > >> Jim > >> > >> On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 06:21 AM, Christian Gerzner wrote: > >> > >>> Jim Cobb wrote: > >>>> > >>>> It truly pains me to see this sort of infighting going on between > >>>> friends. > >>> > >>> I agree. > >>> > >>>> If you felt that there was a chance things were going to go south on > >>>> a, > >>>> for chirsts sake, 70' vis Eureka weenie dive, then you should have > >>>> had > >>>> the goddamn zodiac in the water, gassed up and running before anybody > >>>> even jumps in the water. > >>> > >>> There are, we all know that who have read this and associated threads, > >>> a lot of things that could, should, might have been done however the > >>> above statement bears comment. > >>> > >>>> (For those who don't know it's a real bitch to launch the zodiac on > >>>> the ML, > >>>> and even then it is doubtful the motor will start). > >>> > >>> Really? REALLY? > >>> > >>> Jim, I don't know what laws apply in your neck of the woods but that, > >>> to me, is plain stupid, as in criminally stupid. It's about as useful > >>> as not having the bloody thing along at all and it smacks of blatant > >>> incompetence on the part of the crew/management, EVEN IF it is NOT an > >>> item required by law. > >>> > >>> 1) You have a safety boat and it works, at best, sometimes? > >>> > >>> 2) It's difficult to launch? > >>> > >>> Bluddy hell!!! Are the first time passenger/divers boarding (in this > >>> example) the ML going to ask questions along these lines? Is this, > >>> should this be, part of "their ass" strategy? Where does it all stop? > >>> Should they now inspect the engine room? Ask the Captain for his > >>> papers? > >>> > >>> Or are they entitled to assume that the boat, as well as the crew, is > >>> competent? I know, I know, competence is in the eyes of the beholder > >>> and I don't even know whether commercial dive boats in your neck of > >>> the woods need to be licensed (here in Oz, they certainly do although > >>> whether that, in itself, is necessarily a good thing is yet another > >>> question). > >>> > >>> This boat, to my eyes, appears incompetent, according to what you have > >>> said above. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Christian > >> > >> -- > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver- > >> request@aq*.co*'. > >> > >> > > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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