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Its easy to win against a neophyte when they are lieing, just tell the 
truth. You have a lot to learn about Capt Charlie, he will let me do 
anything........I called the Frankfurt off because of time from the weather 
delay and the fact that the Ostfrisland was more appealing as none of us 
had done a sub 300ft dive this year. Mentally 380ft is better than 420, 
something you can't comprehend.

Bottom line is you are not doing it right or what ever you think you want 
to call it, you nearly killed your wife and made a fool of yourself on the 
boat. Stick to the quarries.......



   At 09:58 PM 7/24/02 -0400, Todd Clagett wrote:
>I did make a fool of myself, but it was when I decided to get in the water 
>with you and considered you a friend.  Egg on my face.  I don't get why 
>you think this is some sort of conspiracy.  I have nothing to hide.  The 
>gage would have read 3K still if the isolator was shut.  The gage read 
>about 1700#, the isolator was open.  No conspiracy dude.  No panic 
>either.  Just sick of dealing with people who don't take our safety 
>seriously.  I was uptight, of course.  I would be a fool if I said 
>otherwise, but why would a mate watch a lift bag for 10 min and not want 
>to tell the capt?  Why would you have a zodiac on board the boat and not 
>use it.  Why would you take an hour to untie when somebody's life COULD be 
>at risk.  These emails illustrate the exact reason you are dangerous.  Why 
>is this so mysterious.  We had a problem, we addressed it.  End of 
>story.  I sense a little resentment.  You are just mad that other people, 
>brighter and smarter people, are playing in your sand box.
>
>Tell me again why you didn't do the Frankfurt dive.  I believe you said it 
>was that you decided others couldn't do the dive so you blamed it on 
>weather.  I found out from the source that you were planning a 
>ridiculously long bottom time and the captain told you that you were and 
>idiot and he wouldn't let you do it.  Ego?  I think so.  Even now you can 
>feel the anger burning.  Sound familiar dumbass.  This is one of your 
>REE-Verse physiology lines.  It's so funny when you think you have 
>something on somebody.  You better arm yourself if you want to enter a 
>battle of wits with me.  I can recommend a good GED program if you are 
>interested.
>
>Laughing my ass off at your conspiracy theory!
>Todd
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: VBTech list [mailto:VBTech@ci*.co*]On Behalf Of Capt JT
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:38 PM
>>To: VBTech list
>>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>Subject: Re: Incident report from this weekend (long but worth reading)
>>
>>At 08:01 PM 7/24/02 -0400, Todd Clagett wrote:
>>
>>>We have really started doing the pre-dive gear check that GUE teaches in 
>>>the fundamentals course and it has already saved some people some minor 
>>>discomfort by identifying things prior to getting in the water.
>>Digging for some back up are we.......
>>
>>>  It's a great way to ensure you and your buddy are squared away before 
>>> getting in the water.  I was leading the drill for me and Allyson and I 
>>> didn't hear her say "check" after checking her backup while looking at 
>>> her SPG.  I turned and said, did you check it?  She said yes, but I 
>>> asked her to do it again while I was watching.  She checked the valve 
>>> open, and breathed another 3 breaths off of the back up while looking 
>>> at the SPG.  She swears that the SPG was steady for all three inhalations.
>>Most people do say it was on and working.
>>
>>>It was 17 min into the planned 30 min bottom time and we had already 
>>>filled both bags with bottles.  I signaled to everyone that I wanted to 
>>>look around and be a tourist for a bit since we still had so much time 
>>>left.  Just after I signaled that I wanted to look around, Allyson gave 
>>>me a light signal and I got right up in her face and gave her the OK 
>>>sign.  She shook her head no and went to her back up regulator.
>>>   She then took the back up reg out of her mouth and she instantly had 
>>> my primary regulator in her mouth.  Thank god we had been practicing 
>>> this drill non stop, it was natural and easy with everyone remaining 
>>> pretty calm.  I donated the reg without thinking about it and then it 
>>> sort of hit me that this was no drill.  I remember looking over at my 
>>> wife breathing my long hose and I thought of my daughter.  I also 
>>> realized that most of the other people who frequent this dive boat 
>>> would most likely have screwed the whole thing up.  I am referring to 
>>> the ones who resent GUE and anyone who actually strives to dive safer 
>>> and smarter.
>>Looking for more back up.........
>>
>>>During our little maneuver we had drifted about 15 feet away from where 
>>>we were digging and I signaled Dalton Senior.  He looked at me with a 
>>>look that said "You aren't supposed to be doing that drill this 
>>>deep".  It was almost a what the hell are you doing look!  I signaled 
>>>him to take care of our scooters and that we were ascending.  I looked 
>>>at Allyson and looked carefully at her eyes.  She was very calm, so I 
>>>decided to purge her primary to see if gas came out (she showed me her 
>>>pressure gage after I showed her mine when I donated.  She still had 
>>>1700psi and it seemed like a lot of time had elapsed.  Some gas came out 
>>>of the primary when I purged it so I then purged the backup reg and 
>>>nothing came out at all.  I then reached back and turned her left post 
>>>on.  I couldn't  believe it was off.
>>No shit......had you already turned the isolator back on.
>>
>>>Obviously a mistake had been made somewhere.  Maybe she turned it off 
>>>when in the boat by accident I don't know, but I witnessed her checking 
>>>it at least once and she swears that she had done it once before too 
>>>(the check includes taking 3 long breaths off of the reg).  I have a 
>>>theory about what happened but I'll let JT stew over that one for a 
>>>while.  Either way, a mistake was made and it was time to deal with 
>>>it.  The reason we train this way is so that it's all natural and part 
>>>of our muscle memory when something happens whether it be gear or human 
>>>error.
>>>
>>>Later Allyson said the reg became hard to breath and wet ( and her 
>>>backup was somehow turned off).  I think maybe some of the crap I was 
>>>blowing with the scooter got caught in her second stage.  We had our 
>>>heads in the hole where I was digging and it could have easily 
>>>happened.  It has happened to me before, but I just shook the reg in the 
>>>water.
>>Regs become really really hard to breath when their is no gas in that 
>>tank and the isolator is closed.
>>
>>>So now Allyson's backup reg was working and I think we both preferred 
>>>her to be on her own gas for the ascent.  There was some current and the 
>>>seas were 3 to 4 ft.  Nothing major, but we didn't need any more 
>>>"situations" at this point.  She went back on her backup reg and I 
>>>changed my mind about letting the Daltons take our scooters for us.  I 
>>>signaled and they immediately brought the scooters to us.  This is where 
>>>I lost some environmental awareness.  I was so focused on Allyson that I 
>>>lost track of the anchor line (turned out it was right behind me).  I 
>>>signaled to Dalton that I was turned around and didn't know where the 
>>>line was now, he looked at me funny and pointed at it only about 30 feet 
>>>away (the vis was at least 70 ft).  So with me feeling silly we started 
>>>to swim over to the line to begin our ascent.  Allyson signaled for me 
>>>to look at my fins and now I had my wreck reel caught in my fins.  What 
>>>else could happen?  I unhooked the reel from my butt D-ring (flame away) 
>>>and dropped it into the sand.  The line fell off of my fins and we just 
>>>left it.  We started our ascent.....finally.  10 minutes had elapsed 
>>>since she had asked me for gas.
>>Things happen in a panic don't they.
>>
>>>
>>>I looked down to see the Daltons gather their own scooter and then my 
>>>wreck reel.  Allyson and I concentrated on each other during the ascent 
>>>and did our light deco.  I noticed throughout the ascent that the 
>>>Dalton's were conspicuously absent.  I was concerned that they had 
>>>gotten off of the line.
>>Now it comes to light about how they drifted away, 2 divers with little 
>>scooter experience and 1 scooter and 2 bags of artifacts that you just 
>>can't live without and they say they are running up to the anchor and 
>>drifting back......... why would 2 guys use one scooter to do this.
>>
>>>Allyson boarded the boat before me, but I quickly followed.  I asked the 
>>>mate if he saw a lift bag as soon as I got on board and he said there 
>>>was one off of the stern.  I informed him that it was the Daltons and 
>>>that he should get the Zodiac to pick them up.  He looked at me like I 
>>>was an idiot, so I asked him how long the bag was there.  He said about 
>>>10 min.  I asked if he had informed the captain.  He said no.  I started 
>>>yelling at him and we exchanged words.
>>Can we say panic here..........
>>
>>>   By this time Allyson was out of her gear and went to the pilot house 
>>> to WAKE UP the captain.  That's right I said wake up the captain (argue 
>>> that one JT).  I guess the captain was a little tired from his solo 
>>> dive to 118 feet and needed a nap.  Is it normal practice for the only 
>>> qualified captain on board to do a dive 67 miles out in the Ocean with 
>>> a boat full of divers?  Is it normal practice for him to sleep while 
>>> divers are doing decompression?  I guess the mate was scared to wake him up.
>>What goes on with another Capt , I have no control over, I was to be on 
>>the boat also, but ask to go home at 530am as Nancy was flying out that 
>>afternoon for 3 days. The Eureka is 54 miles.
>>
>>>The rest of the boat actually seemed to be making fun of me for yelling 
>>>at the mate and his stupidity, but obviously nobody seemed very 
>>>concerned with safety.  The captain asked me to bounce down and pull the 
>>>hook and I said no, I just surfaced.  I wouldn't do it alone 
>>>anyway.  The right thing to do would have been to sacrifice the anchor 
>>>or tie a ball to it and go get the team in the water.  They were very 
>>>far away at this point and nobody knew if they were alright.  Nobody 
>>>else on the boat seemed very concerned, I think they were just following 
>>>JT's example of making fun instead of helping.  I ended up pulling in 
>>>lines and the only person who lended a hand was Tom Adams.  Thanks 
>>>Tom!  The rest of the boat made jokes and snide comments.  Just the kind 
>>>of people I want around in case I make a mistake and need help.
>>The rest of the boat could clearly see you were panicking and making a 
>>fool of yourself.
>>
>>
>>
>>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in 
>>the water"
>>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>>  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
>>Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>
>
>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in 
>the water"
>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
>Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>

--=====================_54245224==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
Its easy to win against a neophyte when they are lieing, just tell the
truth. You have a lot to learn about Capt Charlie, he will let me do
anything........I called the Frankfurt off because of time from the
weather delay and the fact that the Ostfrisland was more appealing as
none of us had done a sub 300ft dive this year. Mentally 380ft is better
than 420, something you can't comprehend.<br>
<br>
Bottom line is you are not doing it right or what ever you think you want
to call it, you nearly killed your wife and made a fool of yourself on
the boat. Stick to the quarries.......<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
    At 09:58 PM 7/24/02 -0400, Todd Clagett wrote:<br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF"><blockquote type=3Dcite
cite=
>I
did make a fool of myself, but it was when I decided to get in the water
with you and considered you a friend.  Egg on my face.  I don't
get why you think this is some sort of conspiracy.  I have nothing
to hide.  The gage would have read 3K still if the isolator was
shut.  The gage read about 1700#, the isolator was open.  No
conspiracy dude.  No panic either.  Just sick of dealing with
people who don't take our safety seriously.  I was uptight, of
course.  I would be a fool if I said otherwise, but why would a mate
watch a lift bag for 10 min and not want to tell the capt?  Why
would you have a zodiac on board the boat and not use it.  Why would
you take an hour to untie when somebody's life COULD be at risk. 
These emails illustrate the exact reason you are dangerous.  Why is
this so mysterious.  We had a problem, we addressed it.  End of
story.  I sense a little resentment.  You are just mad that
other people, brighter and smarter people, are playing in your sand
box.</font><br>
 <br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">Tell me again why you didn't=
 do
the Frankfurt dive.  I believe you said it was that you decided
others couldn't do the dive so you blamed it on weather.  I found
out from the source that you were planning a ridiculously long bottom
time and the captain told you that you were and idiot and he wouldn't let
you do it.  Ego?  I think so.  Even now you can feel the
anger burning.  Sound familiar dumbass.  This is one of your
REE-Verse physiology lines.  It's so funny when you think you have
something on somebody.  You better arm yourself if you want to enter
a battle of wits with me.  I can recommend a good GED program if you
are interested. </font><br>
 <br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">Laughing my ass off at your
conspiracy theory!</font><br>
Todd<blockquote><font face=3D"tahoma" size=3D2>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> VBTech list
[<a href=3D"mailto:VBTech@ci*.co*%5DOn"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:VBTech@ci*.co*]</a><a=
 href=3D"mailto:VBTech@ci*.co*%5DOn" eudora=3D"autourl">On</a>
Behalf Of </b>Capt JT
<dd>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:38 PM
<dd>To:</b> VBTech list
<dd>Cc:</b> techdiver@aquanaut.com
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: Incident report from this weekend (long but worth
reading)<br>
<br>
</font>
<dd>At 08:01 PM 7/24/02 -0400, Todd Clagett wrote:<br>
<br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>
<dd>We have really started doing the pre-dive gear check that GUE teaches
in the fundamentals course and it has already saved some people some
minor discomfort by identifying things prior to getting in the
water.</font></blockquote>
<dd>Digging for some back up are we.......<br>
<br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>
<dd> It's a great way to ensure you and your buddy are squared away
before getting in the water.  I was leading the drill for me and
Allyson and I didn't hear her say "check" after checking her
backup while looking at her SPG.  I turned and said, did you check
it?  She said yes, but I asked her to do it again while I was
watching.  She checked the valve open, and breathed another 3
breaths off of the back up while looking at the SPG.  She swears
that the SPG was steady for all three inhalations. </font></blockquote>
<dd>Most people do say it was on and working.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite>
<dd>It was 17 min into the planned 30 min bottom time and we had already
filled both bags with bottles.  I signaled to everyone that I wanted
to look around and be a tourist for a bit since we still had so much time
left.  Just after I signaled that I wanted to look around, Allyson
gave me a light signal and I got right up in her face and gave her the OK
sign.  She shook her head no and went to her back up regulator.
<dd>  She then took the back up reg out of her mouth and she
instantly had my primary regulator in her mouth.  Thank god we had
been practicing this drill non stop, it was natural and easy with
everyone remaining pretty calm.  I donated the reg without thinking
about it and then it sort of hit me that this was no drill.  I
remember looking over at my wife breathing my long hose and I thought of
my daughter.  I also realized that most of the other people who
frequent this dive boat would most likely have screwed the whole thing
up.  I am referring to the ones who resent GUE and anyone who
actually strives to dive safer and smarter.  </blockquote>
<dd>Looking for more back up.........<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>
<dd>During our little maneuver we had drifted about 15 feet away from
where we were digging and I signaled Dalton Senior.  He looked at me
with a look that said "You aren't supposed to be doing that drill
this deep".  It was almost a what the hell are you doing
look!  I signaled him to take care of our scooters and that we were
ascending.  I looked at Allyson and looked carefully at her
eyes.  She was very calm, so I decided to purge her primary to see
if gas came out (she showed me her pressure gage after I showed her mine
when I donated.  She still had 1700psi and it seemed like a lot of
time had elapsed.  Some gas came out of the primary when I purged it
so I then purged the backup reg and nothing came out at all.  I then
reached back and turned her left post on.  I couldn't  believe
it was off.</font></blockquote>
<dd>No shit......had you already turned the isolator back on.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>
<dd>Obviously a mistake had been made somewhere.  Maybe she turned
it off when in the boat by accident I don't know, but I witnessed her
checking it at least once and she swears that she had done it once before
too (the check includes taking 3 long breaths off of the reg).  I
have a theory about what happened but I'll let JT stew over that one for
a while.  Either way, a mistake was made and it was time to deal
with it.  The reason we train this way is so that it's all natural
and part of our muscle memory when something happens whether it be gear
or human error.  </font>
<dd> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>
<dd>Later Allyson said the reg became hard to breath and wet ( and her
backup was somehow turned off).  I think maybe some of the crap I
was blowing with the scooter got caught in her second stage.  We had
our heads in the hole where I was digging and it could have easily
happened.  It has happened to me before, but I just shook the reg in
the water.  </font></blockquote>
<dd>Regs become really really hard to breath when their is no gas in that
tank and the isolator is closed.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>
<dd>So now Allyson's backup reg was working and I think we both preferred
her to be on her own gas for the ascent.  There was some current and
the seas were 3 to 4 ft.  Nothing major, but we didn't need any more
"situations" at this point.  She went back on her backup
reg and I changed my mind about letting the Daltons take our scooters for
us.  I signaled and they immediately brought the scooters to
us.  This is where I lost some environmental awareness.  I was
so focused on Allyson that I lost track of the anchor line (turned out it
was right behind me).  I signaled to Dalton that I was turned around
and didn't know where the line was now, he looked at me funny and pointed
at it only about 30 feet away (the vis was at least 70 ft).  So with
me feeling silly we started to swim over to the line to begin our
ascent.  Allyson signaled for me to look at my fins and now I had my
wreck reel caught in my fins.  What else could happen?  I
unhooked the reel from my butt D-ring (flame away) and dropped it into
the sand.  The line fell off of my fins and we just left it. 
We started our ascent.....finally.  10 minutes had elapsed since she
had asked me for gas. </font></blockquote>
<dd>Things happen in a panic don't they.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite>
<dd> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>
<dd>I looked down to see the Daltons gather their own scooter and then my
wreck reel.  Allyson and I concentrated on each other during the
ascent and did our light deco.  I noticed throughout the ascent that
the Dalton's were conspicuously absent.  I was concerned that they
had gotten off of the line. </font></blockquote>
<dd>Now it comes to light about how they drifted away, 2 divers with
little scooter experience and 1 scooter and 2 bags of artifacts that you
just can't live without and they say they are running up to the anchor
and drifting back......... why would 2 guys use one scooter to do
this.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>
<dd>Allyson boarded the boat before me, but I quickly followed.  I
asked the mate if he saw a lift bag as soon as I got on board and he said
there was one off of the stern.  I informed him that it was the
Daltons and that he should get the Zodiac to pick them up.  He
looked at me like I was an idiot, so I asked him how long the bag was
there.  He said about 10 min.  I asked if he had informed the
captain.  He said no.  I started yelling at him and we
exchanged words.</font></blockquote>
<dd>Can we say panic here..........<br>
<br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>
<dd>  By this time Allyson was out of her gear and went to the pilot
house to WAKE UP the captain.  That's right I said wake up the
captain (argue that one JT).  I guess the captain was a little tired
from his solo dive to 118 feet and needed a nap.  Is it normal
practice for the only qualified captain on board to do a dive 67 miles
out in the Ocean with a boat full of divers?  Is it normal practice
for him to sleep while divers are doing decompression?  I guess the
mate was scared to wake him up.</font></blockquote>
<dd>What goes on with another Capt , I have no control over, I was to be
on the boat also, but ask to go home at 530am as Nancy was flying out
that afternoon for 3 days. The Eureka is 54 miles.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>
<dd>The rest of the boat actually seemed to be making fun of me for
yelling at the mate and his stupidity, but obviously nobody seemed very
concerned with safety.  The captain asked me to bounce down and pull
the hook and I said no, I just surfaced.  I wouldn't do it alone
anyway.  The right thing to do would have been to sacrifice the
anchor or tie a ball to it and go get the team in the water.  They
were very far away at this point and nobody knew if they were
alright.  Nobody else on the boat seemed very concerned, I think
they were just following JT's example of making fun instead of
helping.  I ended up pulling in lines and the only person who lended
a hand was Tom Adams.  Thanks Tom!  The rest of the boat made
jokes and snide comments.  Just the kind of people I want around in
case I make a mistake and need help.</font></blockquote>
<dd>The rest of the boat could clearly see you were panicking and making
a fool of yourself. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to
get in the water"<font color=3D"#0000FF">
<dd>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more=20
<dd> Web Site 
<a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a>
<dd>Email     captjt@mi*.co*</font>
</dl></u></blockquote><br>

<br>
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get
in the water"<br>
<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East
Coast & more <br>
 Web Site 
<a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com</a><a=
 href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/" eudora=3D"autourl">/<br>
</a>Email     captjt@mi*.co*<br>
<br>
</font></u></html>

--=====================_54245224==_.ALT--

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