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I do agree with you Paul, the suits are what's causing all of this. I do think that you should be certified to dive. If I were selling something where someone could kill themselves with it I think I would want to know they know how to use it. Would I sell a car to someone where they looked all drunk and not able to handle the car, No I wouldn't, maybe it's just me. We have enough people that are suppose to know what they are doing dying. I can only assume that with people diving without training there would be more deaths. There needs to be some type of self regulation otherwise, like George is always saying about all the deaths because of stupid things, the govt. will end up stepping in and we'll lose the sport we all love so much. You are correct, where does it end? You can always take something to the extreme and be ridiculous. If a dive shop is refusing to fill someone's tanks because they have a GUE card then this is wrong. If the shop doesn't know who GUE is then they can't be faulted for asking for references or looking it up. Same goes for dive boats. Art. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Braunbehrens [mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 12:55 PM To: Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*; techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: GUE and Drivers License Art.Paltz@R2*.CO* wrote: >Maybe I'm reading your email wrong but are you suggesting that dive boats >should not check certification before a dive and that dive shops should not >check for certification before filling scuba tanks? Hey, lets not check >drivers licenses or passports anymore. Why do we require someone to have a >pilots license before flying? >If GUE is a recognized agency (whatever that means) and has insurance then >there is no reason not to accept their cards. Art, this all has to do with being sued, and with nothing else. There is no law requiring you to be certified in order to dive, and there is no law requiring dive shops to check such certification. Do you also think that someone who wants to buy an ice axe should be certified to mountain climb? That someone who wants to buy a mask, snorkel, and fins should be certified to free dive in kelp? That someone who buys a boat should be certified to operate a boat? That someone who wants to sail should be certified to operate a sailboat? That someone who wants to buy a gas grill should be certified to use a gas grill? That someone who wants to ride a bicycle have it licensed by the government? Where does it end? No offense, but I think the legal system in this country is to blame for a number of problems, because people just love to sue. Lawsuits and the fear of lawsuits are the reason why: You can't find a decent hill to ride a sled anymore. They tell you at the pool that you can't use a (mask, snorkel, fin, toy etc.) Bicycle wheels don't come off even when you release the "quickrelease" You can't rent inflatables in Monterey You can't rent a kayak in Monterey and use it to dive off You can't get a tank fill unless PADI sanctifies you first. I certainly think that people should get instruction before they dive. I do not think that it should be mandated by law or fear of lawsuits. The present system is simply BS from start to finish. Did you know that you don't have to be certified to SNUBA? What is SNUBA? SNUBA is the exact same thing as SCUBA, except that the tank rides on a little inflatable on the surface, and you breathe off a very long hose. They let 10 year olds use this system with very minimal instruction (5 mn). If that is "reasonable", then I really don't see why we can't have the same for SCUBA. That is where it's going anyway. "don't hold your breath" "ascend with 800 psi" "do a 3 mn stop at 15 fsw" "use a dive computer" Congratulations, you're certified! Did I forget the in water skills? No. Being able to clear your mask or breathe off your buddies regulator while sitting in the sand is not a set of skills. It's a set of liabilities and rationalizations. Being able to do a 3 mn stop at 20 fsw while on your buddies gas supply and clearing your mask is the required skill. The rest is just enough to give you the illusion that you're ready, and the justification in court "He was trained according to industry standards, your Honor". Yet this is exactly the level or training that most people get. -Paul B. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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