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--=====================_16830293==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ted, you may have taken a RB course, but that only tells us why you are getting the lip service from G nothing more. The only losers are the ones that are listening to you. There is no fail or pass in that class, no card........I used the word "Failed" because there is room for improvement by all of us except one. Notice when I referred to Tom it was always "perfect", to me if it ain't perfect then you fail or suck. The class is only showing you where you need improvement or a different way to do things. Have you given any thought as to why the NOVA tech group was formed in your very own back yard and are asking for someone else to come in and show the class the "BAR", not you. You were invited so you to could see it, but we know you can't let that happen. As usual I must have been the only one to ever post the true facts of this class, which is why my posts get so much attention. G also makes this true because it showed he did not even know what goes on in the class and will now have to sit in on one to see for himself. I can only hope that my post of true facts will help someone who is unwilling to ask questions or straighten out those who are unwilling to answer them with the truth. The facts are GUE is JJ, Andrew is its training director, that is who showed us the "BAR" and I was satisfied with the class. At 01:32 PM 5/9/02 -0400, Ted Green wrote: >To all, > The final points. > >1. An instructor needs to evaluate the students basic skill levels and >correct deficiencies before attempting to teach new material. As was >demonstrated by this class, a student's basic skills are not always what >the're advertised to be. > >2. Handicapping student's equipment, harassment techniques, and 3 man >buddy teams have no place on dive #1 ( if you must do them at all >) because of point #1. If you have no first hand experience with a >particular diver in the water, why would you put them in a more difficult >or dangerous situation if you don't know whether they are prepared to >handle it. > >3. Three man teams, while certainly doable in some / most >diving situation, are more difficult than two man teams until your >team gets good at it. This is a skill that needs to be learned with >above water instruction and underwater practice. Just as with a reel, >you don't tell your students,"here it is, jump in the water and give it >a shot". If you disagree with this then explain why in the >recreational diving world a disproportionately high number of 3 buddy >teams fail ( one diver gets separated from the other two). Answer: they >were never trained as a team to do it properly, and they lack the >discipline to make it work. Learning the three man buddy team is not >something you should be doing while fighting your shrink wrapped drysuit >and doing gas shut down drills. Which brings me to point #4. > >4. I really have to question how smart it is to cram all this stuff into a >weekend dive course with 10 students and 1 instructor. With a 90% failure >rate........ or should I say 90% still in training, this doesn't speak >well for a dir fundamentals course. You may be surprised to find that I >don't hold this against Andrew. The last course I took was a >rebreather course from Errol Kalayci ( a gue instructor ) in 1998. My out >of pocket for the week, travel, accommodations, meals, training, and >diving was over $2,000. I think the tuition alone was over $900. Three of >us spent 5 intense days learning and diving the Halcyon rebreather. This >is the way to learn Technical diving! It infuriates me that people are >willing to spend thousands / tens of thousands of dollars on dive gear >and diving and yet think they are accomplishing something by being in a >class of 10 spending $300 each, for a weekend and think they are going to >learn this stuff. > >For the last few days I have been reading e-mails from the participants >of this class who failed. Almost all hold Andrew in high regard and think >he is a great instructor. Several told of how Andrew made them realize >they were an accident waiting to happen. To them I respond, > >WHY HAS NOT ONE OF YOU LOOSERS SAID," I'M GOING TO GO SPEND A COUPLE OF >THOUSAND DOLLARS, A WEEK WITH ANDREW, AND LEARN TO DO IT RIGHT SO I DON'T >KILL MYSELF." > >5. To those of you who have invited to come to a weekend dir fundementals >course for $275 with 9 other people, I say," forget it! If I ever take >this course I'll pack my bags grab a fist full of hundred dollar bills, >head to Florida for at least a week, pay for private instruction or not >more than 4 students to one instructor and DO IT RIGHT." The best way to >learn technical diving is to take the course and then spend 4 or five days >straight doing it. When it comes to time with the instructor, I won't >settle for 10%. I want all of it, or at least 25% over several days. It's >sad when a "stroke" like me takes his diving instruction far more >seriously than you "dir wanna bees". > >I'm out of here for a few days, so no more e-mails for a while. If you >want to argue the points, e-mail George. I'm pretty sure he will agree >with me on most of this. > > > > > > >Ted Green >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dive >Charter Boat: O.C. Diver Sunset Marina in Ocean City, >Maryland <http://www.ocdiver.com>http://www.ocdiver.com > 410.742.1992 800.637.2102 Fax >10.749.9410 "Diving the Atlantic coast from Cape May NJ to Cape Charles >VA." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. ></blockquote></x-html> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* --=====================_16830293==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> Ted, you may have taken a RB course, but that only tells us why you are getting the lip service from G nothing more.<br> <br> The only losers are the ones that are listening to you. There is no fail or pass in that class, no card........I used the word "Failed" because there is room for improvement by all of us except one. Notice when I referred to Tom it was always "perfect", to me if it ain't perfect then you fail or suck. The class is only showing you where you need improvement or a different way to do things. Have you given any thought as to why the NOVA tech group was formed in your very own back yard and are asking for someone else to come in and show the class the "BAR", not you. You were invited so you to could see it, but we know you can't let that happen.<br> <br> As usual I must have been the only one to ever post the true facts of this class, which is why my posts get so much attention. G also makes this true because it showed he did not even know what goes on in the class and will now have to sit in on one to see for himself.<br> <br> I can only hope that my post of true facts will help someone who is unwilling to ask questions or straighten out those who are unwilling to answer them with the truth. <br> <br> The facts are GUE is JJ, Andrew is its training director, that is who showed us the "BAR" and I was satisfied with the class. <br> <br> <br> At 01:32 PM 5/9/02 -0400, Ted Green wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote type=3Dcite cite>To all, <br> The final points. <br> <br> 1. An instructor needs to evaluate the students basic skill levels and correct deficiencies before attempting to teach new material. As was demonstrated by this class, a student's basic skills are not always what the're advertised to be. <br> <br> 2. Handicapping student's equipment, harassment techniques, and 3 man buddy teams have no place on dive #1 ( if you must do them at all ) because of point #1. If you have no first hand experience with a particular diver in the water, why would you put them in a more difficult or dangerous situation if you don't know whether they are prepared to handle it. <br> <br> 3. Three man teams, while certainly doable in some / most diving situation, are more difficult than two man teams until your team gets good at it. This is a skill that needs to be learned with above water instruction and underwater practice. Just as with a reel, you don't tell your students,"here it is, jump in the water and give it a shot". If you disagree with this then explain why in the recreational diving world a disproportionately high number of 3 buddy teams fail ( one diver gets separated from the other two). Answer: they were never trained as a team to do it properly, and they lack the discipline to make it work. Learning the three man buddy team is not something you should be doing while fighting your shrink wrapped drysuit and doing gas shut down drills. Which brings me to point #4. <br> <br> 4. I really have to question how smart it is to cram all this stuff into a weekend dive course with 10 students and 1 instructor. With a 90% failure rate........ or should I say 90% still in training, this doesn't speak well for a dir fundamentals course. You may be surprised to find that I <b>don't</b> hold this against Andrew. The last course I took was a rebreather course from Errol Kalayci ( a gue instructor ) in 1998. My out of pocket for the week, travel, accommodations, meals, training, and diving was over $2,000. I think the tuition alone was over $900. Three of us spent 5 intense days learning and diving the Halcyon rebreather. This is the way to learn Technical diving! It infuriates me that people are willing to spend thousands / tens of thousands of dollars on dive gear and diving and yet think they are accomplishing something by being in a class of 10 spending $300 each, for a weekend and think they are going to learn this stuff. <br> <br> For the last few days I have been reading e-mails from the participants of this class who failed. Almost all hold Andrew in high regard and think he is a great instructor. Several told of how Andrew made them realize they were an accident waiting to happen. To them I respond, <br> <br> <b>WHY HAS NOT ONE OF YOU LOOSERS SAID," I'M GOING TO GO SPEND A COUPLE OF THOUSAND DOLLARS, A WEEK WITH ANDREW, AND LEARN TO DO IT RIGHT SO I DON'T KILL MYSELF." <br> <br> </b>5. To those of you who have invited to come to a weekend dir fundementals course for $275 with 9 other people, I say," forget it! If I ever take this course I'll pack my bags grab a fist full of hundred dollar bills, head to Florida for at least a week, pay for private instruction or not more than 4 students to one instructor and DO IT RIGHT." The best way to learn technical diving is to take the course and then spend 4 or five days straight doing it. When it comes to time with the instructor, I won't settle for 10%. I want all of it, or at least 25% over several days. It's sad when a "stroke" like me takes his diving instruction far more seriously than you "dir wanna bees". <br> <br> I'm out of here for a few days, so no more e-mails for a while. If you want to argue the points, e-mail George. I'm pretty sure he will agree with me on most of this. <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <pre>Ted Green ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dive Charter Boat: O.C. Diver = ; Sunset Marina in Ocean City, Maryland &n= bsp; <a href=3D"http://www.ocdiver.com">http://www.ocdiver.com</a> &nb= sp; &= nbsp; 410.742.1992 800.637.2102 &nbs= p; Fax 410.749.9410 "Diving the Atlantic coast from Cape May NJ to Cape Charles VA." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. </blockquote></x-html> </blockquote><br> <br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water"<br> <font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more <br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> <br> </font></u></html> --=====================_16830293==_.ALT-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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