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Ted, without commenting on the other stuff, since I don't teach diving, let
me say that buddy teams are simple: the first guy keeps track of the second,
the second keeps track of the third. If they can't do that, they are not
paying attention. I don't know about how far this succeeds with new divers,
but I can tell you I have booted a bunch of supposedly experienced divers
from diving with WKPP for not being able to do this. The front guy will stop
and find that he only has one guy with him, and that means the second has
failed to do his job. For that I ax them, as anyone this stupid is a huge
risk. I don't "test" them, other than to turn my light away and see if they
stop. If they do not, they never dive with me or my team again. I don't have
pass and fail, I have DIR or not at all.
I don't know what Andrew teaches, but I hope it is real life from the source
of GUE - the WKPP. If not, it is bullshit, but I know that buddy skills are
JJ's strongest point, so I am sure that GUE focuses on them highly. The
rest, as I said, I am trying my best to ignore. Real life is all that counts
with me, and in real life, my dive buddy does not turn off my gas and I do
not drop down with an uninflated dry suit. In real life, if I get near the
ceiling of something, I check my left valve to see if it is on, and my right
to be sure it is still there. If I see somebody go though a tight area and
fail to do that, I know I am dealing with a stroke, and do not need to drown
him to be sure. I stretch out out to position my suit on the surface before
I go down, and I check to be sure my gas is on one more time at that point,
so I know I can reach everything.
This stuff is so simple, yet is lost in the thunder of the bullshit. People
need to dive a lot to do these things instinctively and they need to be told
why properly and not by somebody who is just repeating something they think
they heard right.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Green [mailto:scuba@md*.co*]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 1:32 PM
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Cc: trey@ne*.co*
Subject: The final points.
To all,
The final points.
1. An instructor needs to evaluate the students basic skill levels and
correct deficiencies before attempting to teach new material. As was
demonstrated by this class, a student's basic skills are not always what
the're advertised to be.
2. Handicapping student's equipment, harassment techniques, and 3 man
buddy teams have no place on dive #1 ( if you must do them at all ) because
of point #1. If you have no first hand experience with a particular diver in
the water, why would you put them in a more difficult or dangerous situation
if you don't know whether they are prepared to handle it.
3. Three man teams, while certainly doable in some / most diving
situation, are more difficult than two man teams until your team gets good
at it. This is a skill that needs to be learned with above water instruction
and underwater practice. Just as with a reel, you don't tell your
students,"here it is, jump in the water and give it a shot". If you disagree
with this then explain why in the recreational diving world a
disproportionately high number of 3 buddy teams fail ( one diver gets
separated from the other two). Answer: they were never trained as a team to
do it properly, and they lack the discipline to make it work. Learning the
three man buddy team is not something you should be doing while fighting
your shrink wrapped drysuit and doing gas shut down drills. Which brings me
to point #4.
4. I really have to question how smart it is to cram all this stuff into a
weekend dive course with 10 students and 1 instructor. With a 90% failure
rate........ or should I say 90% still in training, this doesn't speak well
for a dir fundamentals course. You may be surprised to find that I don't
hold this against Andrew. The last course I took was a rebreather course
from Errol Kalayci ( a gue instructor ) in 1998. My out of pocket for the
week, travel, accommodations, meals, training, and diving was over $2,000. I
think the tuition alone was over $900. Three of us spent 5 intense days
learning and diving the Halcyon rebreather. This is the way to learn
Technical diving! It infuriates me that people are willing to spend
thousands / tens of thousands of dollars on dive gear and diving and yet
think they are accomplishing something by being in a class of 10 spending
$300 each, for a weekend and think they are going to learn this stuff.
For the last few days I have been reading e-mails from the participants of
this class who failed. Almost all hold Andrew in high regard and think he is
a great instructor. Several told of how Andrew made them realize they were
an accident waiting to happen. To them I respond,
WHY HAS NOT ONE OF YOU LOOSERS SAID," I'M GOING TO GO SPEND A COUPLE OF
THOUSAND DOLLARS, A WEEK WITH ANDREW, AND LEARN TO DO IT RIGHT SO I DON'T
KILL MYSELF."
5. To those of you who have invited to come to a weekend dir fundementals
course for $275 with 9 other people, I say," forget it! If I ever take this
course I'll pack my bags grab a fist full of hundred dollar bills, head to
Florida for at least a week, pay for private instruction or not more than 4
students to one instructor and DO IT RIGHT." The best way to learn technical
diving is to take the course and then spend 4 or five days straight doing
it. When it comes to time with the instructor, I won't settle for 10%. I
want all of it, or at least 25% over several days. It's sad when a "stroke"
like me takes his diving instruction far more seriously than you "dir wanna
bees".
I'm out of here for a few days, so no more e-mails for a while. If you
want to argue the points, e-mail George. I'm pretty sure he will agree with
me on most of this.
Ted Green
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dive Charter Boat: O.C. Diver
Sunset Marina in Ocean City, Maryland
http://www.ocdiver.com
410.742.1992 800.637.2102
Fax 410.749.9410
"Diving the Atlantic coast from Cape May NJ to Cape Charles VA."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D028260311-10052002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Ted,=20
without commenting on the other stuff, since I don't teach diving, let =
me say=20
that buddy teams are simple: the first guy keeps track of the second, =
the second=20
keeps track of the third. If they can't do that, they are not paying =
attention.=20
I don't know about how far this succeeds with new divers, but I can tell =
you I=20
have booted a bunch of supposedly experienced divers from diving with =
WKPP for=20
not being able to do this. The front guy will stop and find that he only =
has one=20
guy with him, and that means the second has failed to do his job. For =
that I ax=20
them, as anyone this stupid is a huge risk. I don't "test" them, other =
than to=20
turn my light away and see if they stop. If they do not, they never dive =
with me=20
or my team again. I don't have pass and fail, I have DIR or not at=20
all.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D028260311-10052002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D028260311-10052002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
don't know what Andrew teaches, but I hope it is real life from the =
source of=20
GUE - the WKPP. If not, it is bullshit, but I know that buddy skills are =
JJ's=20
strongest point, so I am sure that GUE focuses on them highly. The rest, =
as I=20
said, I am trying my best to ignore. Real life is all that counts with =
me, and=20
in real life, my dive buddy does not turn off my gas and I do not drop =
down with=20
an uninflated dry suit. In real life, if I get near the ceiling of =
something, I=20
check my left valve to see if it is on, and my right to be sure it is =
still=20
there. If I see somebody go though a tight area and fail to do that, I =
know I am=20
dealing with a stroke, and do not need to drown him to be sure. I =
stretch out=20
out to position my suit on the surface before I go down, and I check to =
be sure=20
my gas is on one more time at that point, so I know I can reach =
everything.=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D028260311-10052002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D028260311-10052002><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>This=20
stuff is so simple, yet is lost in the thunder of the bullshit. People =
need to=20
dive a lot to do these things instinctively and they need to be told why =
properly and not by somebody who is just repeating something they think =
they=20
heard right.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ted Green=20
[mailto:scuba@md*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 09, 2002 =
1:32=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
trey@ne*.co*<BR><B>Subject:</B> The final=20
points.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR>To all, <BR>The final
points. =
<BR><BR>1. An=20
instructor needs to evaluate the students basic skill levels and =
correct=20
deficiencies before attempting to teach new material. As was =
demonstrated by=20
this class, a student's basic skills are not always what the're =
advertised to=20
be. <BR><BR>2. Handicapping student's equipment, harassment =
techniques, and 3=20
man buddy teams have no place on dive #1 ( if you must do them at all =
)=20
because of point #1. If you have no first hand experience with a =
particular=20
diver in the water, why would you put them in a more difficult or =
dangerous=20
situation if you don't know whether they are prepared to handle it. =
<BR><BR>3.=20
Three man teams, while certainly doable in some / most diving =
situation, are=20
more difficult than two man teams until your team gets good at it. =
This is a=20
skill that needs to be learned with above water instruction and =
underwater=20
practice. Just as with a reel, you don't tell your students,"here it =
is, jump=20
in the water and give it a shot". If you disagree with this then =
explain why=20
in the recreational diving world a disproportionately high number of 3 =
buddy=20
teams fail ( one diver gets separated from the other two). Answer: =
they were=20
never trained as a team to do it properly, and they lack the =
discipline to=20
make it work. Learning the three man buddy team is not something you =
should be=20
doing while fighting your shrink wrapped drysuit and doing gas shut =
down=20
drills. Which brings me to point #4.<BR><BR>4. I really have to =
question how=20
smart it is to cram all this stuff into a weekend dive course with 10 =
students=20
and 1 instructor. With a 90% failure rate........ or should I say 90% =
still in=20
training, this doesn't speak well for a dir fundamentals course. You =
may be=20
surprised to find that I <B>don't</B> hold this against Andrew. The =
last=20
course I took was a rebreather course from Errol Kalayci ( a gue =
instructor )=20
in 1998. My out of pocket for the week, travel, accommodations, meals, =
training, and diving was over $2,000. I think the tuition alone was =
over $900.=20
Three of us spent 5 intense days learning and diving the Halcyon =
rebreather.=20
This is the way to learn Technical diving! It infuriates me that =
people are=20
willing to spend thousands / tens of thousands of dollars on dive gear =
and=20
diving and yet think they are accomplishing something by being in a =
class of=20
10 spending $300 each, for a weekend and think they are going to learn =
this=20
stuff. <BR><BR>For the last few days I have been reading e-mails from =
the=20
participants of this class who failed. Almost all hold Andrew in high =
regard=20
and think he is a great instructor. Several told of how Andrew made =
them=20
realize they were an accident waiting to happen. To them I respond,=20
<BR><BR><B>WHY HAS NOT ONE OF YOU LOOSERS SAID," I'M GOING TO GO
SPEND =
A=20
COUPLE OF THOUSAND DOLLARS, A WEEK WITH ANDREW, AND LEARN TO DO IT =
RIGHT SO I=20
DON'T KILL MYSELF."<BR><BR></B>5. To those of you who have invited
to =
come to=20
a weekend dir fundementals course for $275 with 9 other people, I =
say," forget=20
it! If I ever take this course I'll pack my bags grab a fist full of =
hundred=20
dollar bills, head to Florida for at least a week, pay for private =
instruction=20
or not more than 4 students to one instructor and DO IT RIGHT." The =
best way=20
to learn technical diving is to take the course and then spend 4 or =
five days=20
straight doing it. When it comes to time with the instructor, I won't =
settle=20
for 10%. I want all of it, or at least 25% over several days. It's sad =
when a=20
"stroke" like me takes his diving instruction far more seriously than =
you "dir=20
wanna bees".<BR><BR>I'm out of here for a few days, so no more e-mails =
for a=20
while. If you want to argue the points, e-mail George. I'm pretty sure =
he will=20
agree with me on most of this.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><PRE>Ted
Green
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dive Charter Boat: O.C. Diver
Sunset Marina in Ocean City, Maryland
http://www.ocdiver.com
410.742.1992 800.637.2102
Fax 410.749.9410
"Diving the Atlantic coast from Cape May NJ to Cape Charles VA."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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