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Naughton, you are a complete neophyte and you are wasting everyone's time here regurgitating nonsense that you learned in your PADI class or in your DAN magazine. The fact is that Bennett has been painfully slow in acknowledging reality and has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into recognition of or admission of the truth with this stuff, his track record at DAN is a disgrace in this regard ( little items like PFO that he has fought to downplay until very recently), and what he or anyone else wants to publish to sooth the feelings of the hordes of people who should not be diving at all in order to satisfy his true client ( the dive industry) is of no interest to this list of people who are interested in tech diving are real information. We don't need you to read us the bullshit that is fed to the novice divers our there. Look at the name of the list, you driveling idiot, and take your naive nonsense over to rec scuba where you will find plenty of people who, like you, do not know any better. Venous bubbles do not mean bent. We test for these all the time at WKPP under the guidance of Navy doctors and Duke University and have done so for many years, way before you read your first PADI booklet. Really, shut the hell up if you don't know what you are talking about - you look like a complete ass spewing out page one of the Misinformation Handbook. You are 0 for 3 now on posts. You might also want to not post private messages to this list, you flaming asshole. In fact, you might was well not bother posting anything at all. You have nothing to offer but petty nonsense and naive misinformation. You do not belong here. You are disrupting the entire list with your stupidity. Go learn about these things so that some of this will mean something to you, and then we will not have to suffer with your idiocy clogging up the list. -----Original Message----- From: Simon Naunton [mailto:snaunton@ho*.co*] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:45 AM To: John.Brett@qu*.co* Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: RE: detecting bends >From: John.Brett@qu*.co* >To: snaunton@ho*.co* >Subject: RE: RE: detecting bends >Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:42:19 -0500 > > > Because this is an forum for the discussion of technical > > diving and another > > diver made a statement I happened to disagree with on the > > basis of the facts presented. > >I'm still struggling to work out what basis you have on >which to express your disagreement. Do you have more >knowledge than the WKPP about decompression? Errmm... no, and I haven't claimed to have. >Do you know >Dr Bennett? Not personnally. How, apart from being a leader for you to name drop, is this relevant? > > > Strictly speaking, we are not talking about > > decompression, we are > > talking about the possibility of a simple method of > > determining whether a diver has DCI or not. > >Ugh! It seems that you haven't understood G's comments. >Detecting *venous* bubbles isn't the same as detecting >a bend - a PFO makes a *big* difference to their significance. >There's also far more going on at the sub-clinical level >before you get visible symptoms, by which time the damage >is done. So are you saying that once someone is bent then there is no point in attempting treatment? I have sent this in a mail that has yet to appear on the list, but are these venous bubbles? Could they not have been formed directly from gas in the divers mask? > > > > > Regardless of > > > > the achievements you have made with the WKPP, which are > > > > truly impressive, I > > > > am more inclined to believe a doctor who specialises in > > > > hyperbaric medicine than yourself. > > > > > >Your loss. > > > > Subjective. It could be considered you loss as well. > >I know how to deco, thanks to G. I too have learned from him. I reiterate that I am in no way challenging his deco procedures. > > > Not so sure. A prostitute would probably be able to give a > > trick or two on > > avoiding the clap, but a doctor would be far more likely to > > be able to tell > > you what is going on in the body with some degree of > > accuracy. Similarly, > > George and the WKPP are a wealth of information on deco > > practice, however, > > AFAIK none of them have spent enough time at med school, if > >Bill Mee is a doctor of microbiology (WKPP project engineer) Did he attended medical school? BTW I am not trying not to be provocative. > > > any time at all, > > to go up to a hyperbaric doctor and tell him he is wrong, > > particularly with > > the minute amount of information presented in the email. > >Dr Hamilton goes to the WKPP for advice... I thought the WKPP acted as test-ish subjects-ish? > > > I read somewhere that George was a stock broker. I believe > > that Dr Bennett > > is very active in his field, both treating patients and > > conducting research, so could hardly be called a theoretician. > >So just how much do you know about Dr Michael Bennett? >Does he actually dive? Not much. I don't know. What is the relevence of whether he dives or not? > > > By the same token though, I do not > > believe that any of the WKPP have ever sold their bodies for > > the sexual > > gratification of another party, but I also have never met any > > of them so > > that is pure speculation. > >Speculation appears to form the basis of your arguments. >Not the best basis on which to work. >I've tested G's decompression strategy to the best of >my ability, so I have a little more basis than speculation >on which to rate G's opinions over a doctor of whom I've >never heard. As I have already said, I am not challenging G's decompression strategy - I am not in the position to do that, just his rubbishing of Dr Bennetts study based on the information contained in one paragraph written by a newspaper journalist. > > > >Personally, I'd rather listen to someone who bets his > > >life on the outcome, rather than one who bets a published > > >paper. > > > > True, but this is not really relevant in this context. > > > > With apparently 0 incidents of DCI amongst WKPP members, how > > much experience > > does the WKPP have with DCI compared with a hyperbaric > > doctor? > >Sigh. You obviously have *no* idea about the WKPP. >The US Navy come to the WKPP for decompression advice, and >have sent their hyperbaric doctors to examine WKPP divers >after diving. Your point being? They have loads of experience at DCI avoidence. > > > Bottom line: > > Have the WKPP studied the formation of bubbles in the tear > > film of the human > > eye due to changes in ambient pressure? Probably not. Has Dr > > Bennett? Yes. > >The relevance being...? The relevence being that Dr Bennett has studied it and concluded that subjects with 20-30 bubbles in the tear film of their eyes also had DCI and those with 2-3 did not. G & the WKPP, AFAIK, have not studied this, so how can G justify his statement that it is bullshit - but I guess that you cannot answer that John. > >The issue is not so much whether additional bubbles appear in >the tear film after diving, but the interpretation & relevance >of the findings. Just finding bubbles isn't the same as DCI, >which isn't the same as needing treatment. I think that you are looking at this from the wrong angle. I don't believe that Dr Bennett even implies that these bubbles are the cause or part of the damaging part of DCI, there are simply 20-30 bubbles with subjects with DCI and 2-3 with subjects without, therefore, the possiblity exists for an easy test. > >John _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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