Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
--=====================_6575379==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Capt Steve The only real facts that are worth pointing out are that you are so caught up in the trash talk that you jumped at the chance to bash what you consider your competition, nothing more. You and your boat have been the subject of so many colorful stories and humorous postings that you have used much of your own web site to try and counter these defaming things. A waste of bandwidth. The truth is, your a piece of History and nothing more. That is a very nice way of saying your a "has been"...... I doubt that you or your boat will ever see the days of exploration diving again. Now days the only GPS numbers you even need are to the "San Diego" and "Oregon". The below is exchanges from the archives, notice the dates when you read them, 44288 is the one I changed the subject line to "death rig" that was Wednesday Aug 2, 2000 ring a bell? Read what you wrote again and see if Tony or his rig fit anything in that statement. >ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and right >to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit, >from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason >in between, and you dont get any money refunded. >captain steve bielenda http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?44259,from http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?44288,from Remember, it's not my intention to smash your dick in front of everyone, but you started this and I suggest that you turn the light on before trying to read what's wrote on the wall...... I am very thick skinned and you can't get to me, stop trying to cast them stones from the cheap seats, you haven't been perfect yourself. Answer this anyway you wish, I will not answer you again it is counter productive and clearly not good for you, I will let you post "one up" on me because you've been around so long, even a wannabe Capt can see that. The truth is I once posted I would have also let Tony dive, I would have bashed him to his face so much he would have either quit, changed, or no new diver would try to copy him. Instead you tried to glorify him. Do your last post and stay out of this, it does you no good. At 10:11 PM 2/10/02 -0500, Wahooorg@ao*.co* wrote: > Smash away; "if you can't stand the heat get out of the fire" > after forty two years of operating a dive boat I'm still around and the > "and the wanabes like you fade away". You may think you're my peer but > your not, the closest to being my peer is a picture of us together at BTS. > Your comments shows how little you know about Tony death, if it > enters into this discussion it only to dilute this issue on the table, so > be it. Let wait until the Maffatone CG report comes out and it will have > all the details so nothing gets twisted like your trying to do with > Murley death even with the published report. Tony died from "equipment > failure" not people failure. > First when Tony reached the surface he was on the deck in less > than two minutes, he was dead, fixed and diluted pupils, no pulse his > carotid arties were distended 3/8 inch from his neck, puking a bloody > froth. No CPR needed. By four minutes the CG was on the radio. In twenty > five minutes the CG was at my boat removing Tony and taking the report. > No body drowns him while trying to recover him. Tony rig was different in > configurations than conventional scuba but he had tanks gas, regulators > fins exposure suit, all the equipment to go underwater. So what. >The forum debates a lot of things so what. Facts are facts debates don't >count, facts count. > >Capt Jt statement; "Now its your turn, please tell me why you chose to let >Tony Mafatone dive that rig off your boat and die, who jumped in and >pulled him to the boat, did they hold his head up, what was the crew on >the boat yelling, do you even know. It is well known that a huge debate >was going on this list the days before and the day he died about that rig >he was wearing, I called it the death rig" > >Another great quote; >"I met all the required paper work to do the dives," >Your kidding aren't you Jt with this quote. > > >Read the Murley CG report, two rescuers were dragging Murley to the stern >of the Seeker with his BC and suit inflated his head was underwater >someone from the boat jumped in and lifted his head from the water; he was >already drown by his rescuer. Didn't they notice he stopped yelling? > > >Let address the facts; > >1-Murley lied about his diving experience, well documented. >2-Joe Jackson was his instructor the entire time, so he was well versed >with Murley experience and health and lying. He aided the lies >3-Joe Jackson told Murley he couldn't go on the Doria trip just two week >prior to the ill fated trip, because they didn't have enough paying meat to go. >4-This is the reason Joe Jackson used Murley, money. >5-Three weeks experience didn't t make Murley ready to dive the Doria. Oh >almost forgot this was a training dive for Trimix certification. Dan >Crowell said he only takes Trimix certified divers to the Doria? >6-The Seeker scheduling 10 trips a years to boast he ran the most trips so >he took anyone who had the money. >7-Crowell wanted to be know as the number one Doria dive boat, running the >most number of trips don't make you number one. Remember my quote from >Esquire magazine and Newsday, And I was miss quoted "IF IT TAKES FIVE >DIVERS DEATH TO MAKE ME NUMBER ONE, I'LL BE NUMBER TWO ANYTINE" the miss >quote I said "one death" >8- Your heroism is very admirable for diving in the cold water to recover >your friend's body when you were ill equip, it was stupid, and that only >would have made it two deaths and more paper work if you died also >9-Request a complete copy (about 75 pages) of the USCG report on Murley >death read it it will answer every questions you and the others have made >about the CG investigator being over zealous. Even the CG can't stomach a >planned execution by stupidity and greed.. >10-Fact, Murley was drowned at the surface. Crowell was quoted first he >had a heart attack, when it came out he drown "this is not a diving >accident" he right it was a drowning. >11- Log books didn't anyone on the Seeker read Murley log book? Guess not,. >12- > >I met all the required paper work to do the dives, > >n a message dated 2/9/2002 5:06:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, >captjt@mi*.co* writes: > > >Subj:Re: Diver Responsibility >Date:2/9/2002 5:06:18 PM Eastern Standard Time >From:captjt@mi*.co* >To:Wahoodiver@ao*.co*, Bakalite@ba*.co*, vbtech@ci*.co*, >FLTechDiver@mikey.net, EANX@ao*.co* >CC:techdiver@aquanaut.com >Sent from the Internet > > > >Capt. Steve >You have been around a long time, it is not my intention to totally smash >your dick in front of everyone, so I will also smash mine at the same time >as I do yours. > >We both have had the unfortunate trips were divers have lost their life. >For me the hard one was a friend name Tai Wilkerson. When his body popped >to the surface we had no idea what had happen. Before the stand by diver >could get his drysuit zipped and his fins on, I had already jumped off the >bow of the boat with a line in my hand, the water was 41 degrees, I had >nothing on but sweat pants. It was a hard task for me to hold on to him as >they pulled the rope with me while holding on to him, all kinds of >instructions from the boat were being yelled, I did all I could. I could >hardly hear them. Not even once was I able to hold his head up and still >hold onto the line that pulled us up to the boat during the rescue >attempt. I'm sure I was feeling the effects of hypothermia, but I was able >to hang on long enough to get him to the boat and on the deck for CPR. I >am not a very strong surface swimmer. At that time I was also very lean >and had been going to the gym. Once I got on some dry cloths, I put myself >in the rotation to preform CPR. For nearly 2 hrs we did this before the CG >arrived. Once they took him the handful that was doing CPR was totally >drained. Tai was dead....... His death, the accident, and the lawsuit are >well documented in the archives. The dropping of that lawsuit can be seen >on my site, it should never have been filed from the start. Personally I >thought everyone did all they could, those that did do CPR for that long >were in my mind heros, but the family, their lawyer, and even some on this >list chose to call us something else. > >Now its your turn, please tell me why you chose to let Tony Mafatone dive >that rig off your boat and die, who jumped in and pulled him to the boat, >did they hold his head up, what was the crew on the boat yelling, do you >even know. It is well known that a huge debate was going on this list the >days before and the day he died about that rig he was wearing, I called it >the death rig. How come every diver who saw him dive said he would die in >that rig and you let him do it on your boat, why couldn't you see what >everyone else could. Please explain yourself if you can...... > >You have a beef with the boat "Seeker", he is your main reason for >reducing your Doria trips, he was taking your business away, that is the >ax to grind for you and the reason you are saying what you are. Read what >you yourself just wrote: > >ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and right >to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit, >from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason >in between, and you dont get any money refunded. >captain steve bielenda > > > > > > > At 11:44 AM 2/9/02 -0500, Wahoodiver@ao*.co* wrote: >Capt. Jt; >Based on the entire CG report about 75 pages long my question to you is; >How did Murley die, The CG report stated he drown at the surface, what has >a waiver have to do with the situation, Murley can't waive someone else >negligence.only his own. When someone in trouble at the surface screaming >and thrashing with two people assisting him, how and why did he >drown? One of the deck people watching, told the rescuer "his head is >underwater" ????????????? >What has a wavier to do with this situtation? >ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and right >to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit, >from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason >in between, and you dont get any money refunded. >captain steve bielenda > >In a message dated 2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, >Bakalite@ba*.co* writes: > > >Subj:Re: Diver Responsibility >Date:2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time >From:Bakalite@ba*.co* >To:vbtech@ci*.co*, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, EANX@ao*.co* >CC:techdiver@aquanaut.com >Sent from the Internet > > > >John, I don't think you are being naive. The people who took this >guy diving deserve everything they get, but it is important that dive >operators have some protection from lawsuits, and that is usually >where the waiver comes in. If you buy a beer because you saw in the >commercials that all the guys who drink beer get the girls, but then >instead of getting girls you become a drunk, do you think you should >be able to sue the beer company? At some point people need to take >responsibility for themselves, because if the law tries to do it we >are all going to get screwed. > > >John Mason Jr"." wrote: >~ > >JT, > >I agree Christopher Murley made the decision to dive signed the waivers and > >went diving, all his choice. I agree that you should be prepared for dying. > >You are also correct about families wanting to blame someone. Personally I > >think you signed, your responsibility, end of story. But in this case it > >seems that people had the attitude of he signed the waiver cash the check, > >instead of you don't belong here waiver or not. This may be a little naive, > >it is just my opinion. > > > >John > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*> > >To: <vbtech@ci*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; > ><vbtech@ci*.co*>; <EANX@ao*.co*> > >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:59 PM > >Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility > > > > > >> John, have you ever seen a Doria wavier from the Seeker? The one I have > >> states " I have been given the opportunity to review this document with > >> both my family and legal counsel." that is initialed and notarized long > >> before you ever get on the boat. > >> > >> We as humans will die as part of living, one must face the fact that > he or > >> she will someday die. Nothing will change this, that is reality. That is > >> why we make wills and prepare of families for this event. Those who do > >not > >> accept this fact will surely leave their family in debt and screwed. > >> > >> Often families want to blame someone else for this poor planning and to > >> relieve the burden and guilt they feel for not being more involved in the > >> deceased persons life. Clearly, Lawyers have different reasons for > >> pursuing these cases and justice has nothing to do with it. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mason Jr"." wrote: > >> >Curt, > >> >I agree that personal responsibility is the key. However in this case I > >> >think some folks should have dissuaded this gentleman from doing this > >kind > >> >of diving instead of enabling it. It has a bit of moral/ethical > >messiness > >> >to accept money from someone who by all accounts should not be there > just > >> >because he signed a waiver. > >> > > >> >John Mason > >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >From: <EANX@ao*.co*> > >> >To: <dell@di*.co*>; <trimix@ho*.co*>; <aocfishman@ho*.co*>; > >> ><FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*> > >> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > >> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:14 PM > >> >Subject: Diver Responsibility > >> > > >> > > >> > > Again, another case of family members trying to make an excuse for a > >love > >> >one > >> > > lost. > > >In a message dated 2/9/2002 2:38:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, >captjt@mi*.co* writes: > > >>Subj:Re: Diver Responsibility >>Date:2/9/2002 2:38:00 PM Eastern Standard Time >>From:<mailto:captjt@mi*.co*>captjt@mindspring.com >>Reply-to:<mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*>vbtech@cisatlantic.com >>To:<mailto:Wahoodiver@ao*.co*>Wahoodiver@aol.com, >><mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*>Bakalite@bakalite.com, >><mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*>vbtech@cisatlantic.com, >><mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net>FLTechDiver@mikey.net, >><mailto:EANX@ao*.co*>EANX@aol.com >>CC:<mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com >>Sent from the Internet >> >> >> >>Capt. Steve >>You have been around a long time, it is not my intention to totally smash >>your dick in front of everyone, so I will also smash mine at the same >>time as I do yours. >> >>We both have had the unfortunate trips were divers have lost their life. >>For me the hard one was a friend name Tai Wilkerson. When his body popped >>to the surface we had no idea what had happen. Before the stand by diver >>could get his drysuit zipped and his fins on, I had already jumped off >>the bow of the boat with a line in my hand, the water was 41 degrees, I >>had nothing on but sweat pants. It was a hard task for me to hold on to >>him as they pulled the rope with me while holding on to him, all kinds of >>instructions from the boat were being yelled, I did all I could. I could >>hardly hear them. Not even once was I able to hold his head up and still >>hold onto the line that pulled us up to the boat during the rescue >>attempt. I'm sure I was feeling the effects of hypothermia, but I was >>able to hang on long enough to get him to the boat and on the deck for >>CPR. I am not a very strong surface swimmer. At that time I was also very >>lean and had been going to the gym. Once I got on some dry cloths, I put >>myself in the rotation to preform CPR. For nearly 2 hrs we did this >>before the CG arrived. Once they took him the handful that was doing CPR >>was totally drained. Tai was dead....... His death, the accident, and the >>lawsuit are well documented in the archives. The dropping of that lawsuit >>can be seen on my site, it should never have been filed from the start. >>Personally I thought everyone did all they could, those that did do CPR >>for that long were in my mind heros, but the family, their lawyer, and >>even some on this list chose to call us something else. >> >>Now its your turn, please tell me why you chose to let Tony Mafatone dive >>that rig off your boat and die, who jumped in and pulled him to the boat, >>did they hold his head up, what was the crew on the boat yelling, do you >>even know. It is well known that a huge debate was going on this list the >>days before and the day he died about that rig he was wearing, I called >>it the death rig. How come every diver who saw him dive said he would die >>in that rig and you let him do it on your boat, why couldn't you see what >>everyone else could. Please explain yourself if you can...... >> >>You have a beef with the boat "Seeker", he is your main reason for >>reducing your Doria trips, he was taking your business away, that is the >>ax to grind for you and the reason you are saying what you are. Read what >>you yourself just wrote: >> >>>ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and >>>right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see >>>fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other >>>reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded. >>>captain steve bielenda >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 11:44 AM 2/9/02 -0500, Wahoodiver@ao*.co* wrote: >>>Capt. Jt; >>>Based on the entire CG report about 75 pages long my question to you is; >>>How did Murley die, The CG report stated he drown at the surface, what >>>has a waiver have to do with the situation, Murley can't waive someone >>>else negligence.only his own. When someone in trouble at the surface >>>screaming and thrashing with two people assisting him, how and why did >>>he drown? One of the deck people watching, told the rescuer "his head >>>is underwater" ????????????? >>>What has a wavier to do with this situtation? >>>ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and >>>right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see >>>fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other >>>reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded. >>>captain steve bielenda >>> >>>In a message dated 2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>>Bakalite@ba*.co* writes: >>> >>> >>>>Subj:Re: Diver Responsibility >>>>Date:2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time >>>>From:<mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*>Bakalite@bakalite.com >>>>To:<mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*>vbtech@cisatlantic.com, >>>><mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net>FLTechDiver@mikey.net, >>>><mailto:EANX@ao*.co*>EANX@aol.com >>>>CC:<mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com >>>>Sent from the Internet >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>John, I don't think you are being naive. The people who took this >>>>guy diving deserve everything they get, but it is important that dive >>>>operators have some protection from lawsuits, and that is usually >>>>where the waiver comes in. If you buy a beer because you saw in the >>>>commercials that all the guys who drink beer get the girls, but then >>>>instead of getting girls you become a drunk, do you think you should >>>>be able to sue the beer company? At some point people need to take >>>>responsibility for themselves, because if the law tries to do it we >>>>are all going to get screwed. >>>> >>>> >>>>John Mason Jr"." wrote: >>>>~ >>>> >JT, >>>> >I agree Christopher Murley made the decision to dive signed the >>>> waivers and >>>> >went diving, all his choice. I agree that you should be prepared for >>>> dying. >>>> >You are also correct about families wanting to blame someone. >>>> Personally I >>>> >think you signed, your responsibility, end of story. But in this case it >>>> >seems that people had the attitude of he signed the waiver cash the >>>> check, >>>> >instead of you don't belong here waiver or not. This may be a little >>>> naive, >>>> >it is just my opinion. >>>> > >>>> >John >>>> >----- Original Message ----- >>>> >From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*> >>>> >To: <vbtech@ci*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; >>>> ><vbtech@ci*.co*>; <EANX@ao*.co*> >>>> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:59 PM >>>> >Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> John, have you ever seen a Doria wavier from the Seeker? The one >>>> I have >>>> >> states " I have been given the opportunity to review this document >>>> with >>>> >> both my family and legal counsel." that is initialed and >>>> notarized long >>>> >> before you ever get on the boat. >>>> >> >>>> >> We as humans will die as part of living, one must face the fact >>>> that he or >>>> >> she will someday die. Nothing will change this, that is reality. >>>> That is >>>> >> why we make wills and prepare of families for this event. Those >>>> who do >>>> >not >>>> >> accept this fact will surely leave their family in debt and screwed. >>>> >> >>>> >> Often families want to blame someone else for this poor planning >>>> and to >>>> >> relieve the burden and guilt they feel for not being more involved >>>> in the >>>> >> deceased persons life. Clearly, Lawyers have different reasons for >>>> >> pursuing these cases and justice has nothing to do with it. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Mason Jr"." wrote: >>>> >> >Curt, >>>> >> >I agree that personal responsibility is the key. However in this >>>> case I >>>> >> >think some folks should have dissuaded this gentleman from doing this >>>> >kind >>>> >> >of diving instead of enabling it. It has a bit of moral/ethical >>>> >messiness >>>> >> >to accept money from someone who by all accounts should not be >>>> there just >>>> >> >because he signed a waiver. >>>> >> > >>>> >> >John Mason >>>> >> >----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> >From: <EANX@ao*.co*> >>>> >> >To: <dell@di*.co*>; <trimix@ho*.co*>; >>>> <aocfishman@ho*.co*>; >>>> >> ><FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*> >>>> >> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:14 PM >>>> >> >Subject: Diver Responsibility >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > > Again, another case of family members trying to make an excuse >>>> for a >>>> >love >>>> >> >one >>>> >> > > lost. >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > If you sign a waiver saying you accepts the risk involved then it >>>> >should >>>> >> >be >>>> >> > > written in stone. All we need is one case being lost because >>>> of some >>>> >> >crafty >>>> >> > > (crooked) lawyer and all our diving could go to pot. >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > Divers and their families need to start taking responsibility >>>> for what >>>> >> >ever >>>> >> > > they get themselves involved with. If not, then maybe they should >>>> >stay >>>> >> >home >>>> >> > > in bed, but then again they might sue the mattress company for bed >>>> >sores. >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > This includes all divers, no matter their physical fitness. >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > Curt Bowen >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > Publisher Advanced Diver Magazine >>>> >> > > 941-751-2360 Office >>>> >> > > >>>> <http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com/>www.advanceddivermagazine.com >>>> >> > > AdvDvrMag@ao*.co* >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > Mailing address >>>> >> > > Advanced Diver Magazine >>>> >> > > 3115 48th Ave. Dr. East >>>> >> > > Bradenton, FL 34203 USA >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > Rule of Exploration >>>> >> > > "Publish or Perish" >>>> > > > > ============================================================ >>>> >> > > To contact the list administrator, email >>>> >> > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* >>>> >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: >>>> >> > > listserv@mi*.ne* >>>> >> > > and in the *BODY* of the message type: >>>> >> > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> ><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to >>>> >VBTech-request@ci*.= >>>> >> >com >> >>>> >> >>>> >> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to >>>> get in >>>> >the >>>> >> water" >>>> >> >>>> >> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more >>>> >> Web Site <http://www.capt-jt.com/>http://www.capt-jt.com/ >>>> >> Email captjt@mi*.co* >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to >>>> >VBTech-request@ci*.= >>>> >> com >> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to >>>> VBTech-request@ci*.= >>>> >com >> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Paul B. >>>>-- >>>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> >>"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in >>the water" >> >>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more >>Web Site <http://www.capt-jt.com/>http://www.capt-jt.com/ >>Email captjt@mi*.co* > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* --=====================_6575379==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> Capt Steve<br> The only real facts that are worth pointing out are that you are so caught up in the trash talk that you jumped at the chance to bash what you consider your competition, nothing more. You and your boat have been the subject of so many colorful stories and humorous postings that you have used much of your own web site to try and counter these defaming things. A waste of bandwidth.<br> <br> The truth is, your a piece of History and nothing more. That is a very nice way of saying your a "has been"...... I doubt that you or your boat will ever see the days of exploration diving again. Now days the only GPS numbers you even need are to the "San Diego" and "Oregon".<br> <br> The below is exchanges from the archives, notice the dates when you read them, 44288 is the one I changed the subject line to "death rig" that was Wednesday Aug 2, 2000 ring a bell? <br> <font face=3D"arial">Read what you wrote again and see if Tony or his rig fit anything in that statement. <br> <br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded.<br> captain steve bielenda</font></blockquote><br> <br> <a= href=3D"http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?44259,= from"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/dis= play?44259,from</a><br> <br> <br> <a= href=3D"http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?44288,= from"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/dis= play?44288,from</a><br> <br> Remember, it's not my intention to smash your dick in front of everyone, but you started this and I suggest that you turn the light on before trying to read what's wrote on the wall...... I am very thick skinned and you can't get to me, stop trying to cast them stones from the cheap seats, you haven't been perfect yourself. Answer this anyway you wish, I will not answer you again it is counter productive and clearly not good for you, I will let you post "one up" on me because you've been around so long, even a wannabe Capt can see that. <br> <br> The truth is I once posted I would have also let Tony dive, I would have bashed him to his face so much he would have either quit, changed, or no new diver would try to copy him. Instead you tried to glorify him. <br> <br> Do your last post and stay out of this, it does you no good.<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> At 10:11 PM 2/10/02 -0500, Wahooorg@ao*.co* wrote:<br> <br> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite> = ; Smash away; "if you can't stand the heat get out of the fire" after forty two years of operating a dive boat I'm still around and the "and the wanabes like you fade away". You may think you're my peer but your not, the closest to being my peer is a picture of us together at BTS. <br> Your comments shows how little you know about Tony death, if it enters into this discussion it only to dilute this issue on the table, so be it. Let wait until the Maffatone CG report comes out and it will have all the details so nothing gets twisted like your trying to do with Murley death even with the published report. Tony died from "equipment failure" not people failure. <br> First when Tony reached the surface he was on the deck in less than two minutes, he was dead, fixed and diluted pupils, no pulse his carotid arties were distended 3/8 inch from his neck, puking a bloody froth. No CPR needed. By four minutes the CG was on the radio. In twenty five minutes the CG was at my boat removing Tony and taking the report. No body drowns him while trying to recover him. Tony rig was different in configurations than conventional scuba but he had tanks gas, regulators fins exposure suit, all the equipment to go underwater. So what.<br> The forum debates a lot of things so what. Facts are facts debates don't count, facts count.<br> <br> Capt Jt statement; "Now its your turn, please tell me why you chose to let Tony Mafatone dive that rig off your boat and die, who jumped in and pulled him to the boat, did they hold his head up, what was the crew on the boat yelling, do you even know. It is well known that a huge debate was going on this list the days before and the day he died about that rig he was wearing, I called it the death rig"<br> <br> Another great quote;<br> "I met all the required paper work to do the dives," <br> Your kidding aren't you Jt with this quote.<br> <br> <br> Read the Murley CG report, two rescuers were dragging Murley to the stern of the Seeker with his BC and suit inflated his head was underwater someone from the boat jumped in and lifted his head from the water; he was already drown by his rescuer. Didn't they notice he stopped yelling? <br> <br> <br> Let address the facts;<br> <br> 1-Murley lied about his diving experience, well documented.<br> 2-Joe Jackson was his instructor the entire time, so he was well versed with Murley experience and health and lying. He aided the lies<br> 3-Joe Jackson told Murley he couldn't go on the Doria trip just two week prior to the ill fated trip, because they didn't have enough paying meat to go.<br> 4-This is the reason Joe Jackson used Murley, money.<br> 5-Three weeks experience didn't t make Murley ready to dive the Doria. Oh almost forgot this was a training dive for Trimix certification. Dan Crowell said he only takes Trimix certified divers to the Doria?<br> 6-The Seeker scheduling 10 trips a years to boast he ran the most trips so he took anyone who had the money. <br> 7-Crowell wanted to be know as the number one Doria dive boat, running the most number of trips don't make you number one. Remember my quote from Esquire magazine and Newsday, And I was miss quoted "IF IT TAKES FIVE DIVERS DEATH TO MAKE ME NUMBER ONE, I'LL BE NUMBER TWO ANYTINE" the miss quote I said "one death"<br> 8- Your heroism is very admirable for diving in the cold water to recover your friend's body when you were ill equip, it was stupid, and that only would have made it two deaths and more paper work if you died also<br> 9-Request a complete copy (about 75 pages) of the USCG report on Murley death read it it will answer every questions you and the others have made about the CG investigator being over zealous. Even the CG can't stomach a planned execution by stupidity and greed..<br> 10-Fact, Murley was drowned at the surface. Crowell was quoted first he had a heart attack, when it came out he drown "this is not a diving accident" he right it was a drowning.<br> 11- Log books didn't anyone on the Seeker read Murley log book? Guess not,.<br> 12-<br> <br> I met all the required paper work to do the dives,<br> <br> n a message dated 2/9/2002 5:06:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, captjt@mi*.co* writes:<br> <br> <br> Subj:Re: Diver Responsibility <br> Date:2/9/2002 5:06:18 PM Eastern Standard Time<br> From:captjt@mi*.co*<br> To:Wahoodiver@ao*.co*, Bakalite@ba*.co*, vbtech@ci*.co*, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, EANX@ao*.co*<br> CC:techdiver@aquanaut.com<br> Sent from the Internet <br> <br> <br> <br> Capt. Steve<br> You have been around a long time, it is not my intention to totally smash your dick in front of everyone, so I will also smash mine at the same time as I do yours.<br> <br> We both have had the unfortunate trips were divers have lost their life. For me the hard one was a friend name Tai Wilkerson. When his body popped to the surface we had no idea what had happen. Before the stand by diver could get his drysuit zipped and his fins on, I had already jumped off the bow of the boat with a line in my hand, the water was 41 degrees, I had nothing on but sweat pants. It was a hard task for me to hold on to him as they pulled the rope with me while holding on to him, all kinds of instructions from the boat were being yelled, I did all I could. I could hardly hear them. Not even once was I able to hold his head up and still hold onto the line that pulled us up to the boat during the rescue attempt. I'm sure I was feeling the effects of hypothermia, but I was able to hang on long enough to get him to the boat and on the deck for CPR. I am not a very strong surface swimmer. At that time I was also very lean and had been going to the gym. Once I got on some dry cloths, I put myself in the rotation to preform CPR. For nearly 2 hrs we did this before the CG arrived. Once they took him the handful that was doing CPR was totally drained. Tai was dead....... His death, the accident, and the lawsuit are well documented in the archives. The dropping of that lawsuit can be seen on my site, it should never have been filed from the start. Personally I thought everyone did all they could, those that did do CPR for that long were in my mind heros, but the family, their lawyer, and even some on this list chose to call us something else.<br> <br> Now its your turn, please tell me why you chose to let Tony Mafatone dive that rig off your boat and die, who jumped in and pulled him to the boat, did they hold his head up, what was the crew on the boat yelling, do you even know. It is well known that a huge debate was going on this list the days before and the day he died about that rig he was wearing, I called it the death rig. How come every diver who saw him dive said he would die in that rig and you let him do it on your boat, why couldn't you see what everyone else could. Please explain yourself if you can......<br> <br> You have a beef with the boat "Seeker", he is your main reason for reducing your Doria trips, he was taking your business away, that is the ax to grind for you and the reason you are saying what you are. Read what you yourself just wrote:<br> <br> ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded.<br> captain steve bielenda<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> &nbs= p; At 11:44 AM 2/9/02 -0500, Wahoodiver@ao*.co* wrote:<br> Capt. Jt;<br> Based on the entire CG report about 75 pages long my question to you is; <br> How did Murley die, The CG report stated he drown at the surface, what has a waiver have to do with the situation, Murley can't waive someone else negligence.only his own. When someone in trouble at the surface screaming and thrashing with two people assisting him, how and why did he drown? One of the deck people watching, told the rescuer "his head is underwater" ?????????????<br> What has a wavier to do with this situtation?<br> ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded.<br> captain steve bielenda<br> <br> In a message dated 2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bakalite@ba*.co* writes:<br> <br> <br> Subj:Re: Diver Responsibility <br> Date:2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time<br> From:Bakalite@ba*.co*<br> To:vbtech@ci*.co*, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, EANX@ao*.co*<br> CC:techdiver@aquanaut.com<br> Sent from the Internet <br> <br> <br> <br> John, I don't think you are being naive. The people who took this <br> guy diving deserve everything they get, but it is important that dive <br> operators have some protection from lawsuits, and that is usually <br> where the waiver comes in. If you buy a beer because you saw in the <br> commercials that all the guys who drink beer get the girls, but then <br> instead of getting girls you become a drunk, do you think you should <br> be able to sue the beer company? At some point people need to take <br> responsibility for themselves, because if the law tries to do it we=20 <br> are all going to get screwed.<br> <br> <br> John Mason Jr"." wrote:<br> ~<br> >JT,<br> >I agree Christopher Murley made the decision to dive signed the waivers and<br> >went diving, all his choice. I agree that you should be prepared for dying.<br> >You are also correct about families wanting to blame someone. Personally I<br> >think you signed, your responsibility, end of story. But in this case it<br> >seems that people had the attitude of he signed the waiver cash the check,<br> >instead of you don't belong here waiver or not. This may be a little naive,<br> >it is just my opinion.<br> ><br> >John<br> >----- Original Message -----<br> >From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*><br> >To: <vbtech@ci*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;<br> ><vbtech@ci*.co*>; <EANX@ao*.co*><br> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com><br> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:59 PM<br> >Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility<br> ><br> ><br> >> John, have you ever seen a Doria wavier from the Seeker? The one I have<br> >> states " I have been given the opportunity to review this document with<br> >> both my family and legal counsel." that is initialed and notarized long<br> >> before you ever get on the boat.<br> >><br> >> We as humans will die as part of living, one must face the fact that he or<br> >> she will someday die. Nothing will change this, that is reality. That is<br> >> why we make wills and prepare of families for this event. Those who do<br> >not<br> >> accept this fact will surely leave their family in debt and screwed.<br> >><br> >> Often families want to blame someone else for this poor planning and to<br> >> relieve the burden and guilt they feel for not being more involved in the<br> >> deceased persons life. Clearly, Lawyers have different reasons for<br> >> pursuing these cases and justice has nothing to do with it.<br> >><br> >><br> >><br> >><br> >> Mason Jr"." wrote:<br> >> >Curt,<br> >> >I agree that personal responsibility is the key. However in this case I<br> >> >think some folks should have dissuaded this gentleman from doing this<br> >kind<br> >> >of diving instead of enabling it. It has a bit of moral/ethical<br> >messiness<br> >> >to accept money from someone who by all accounts should not be there just<br> >> >because he signed a waiver.<br> >> ><br> >> >John Mason<br> >> >----- Original Message -----<br> >> >From: <EANX@ao*.co*><br> >> >To: <dell@di*.co*>; <trimix@ho*.co*>; <aocfishman@ho*.co*>;<br> >> ><FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*><br> >> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com><br> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:14 PM<br> >> >Subject: Diver Responsibility<br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> > > Again, another case of family members trying to make an excuse for a<br> >love<br> >> >one<br> >> > > lost.<br> <br> <br> In a message dated 2/9/2002 2:38:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, captjt@mi*.co* writes:<br> <br> <br> <blockquote type=3Dcite cite>Subj:<b>Re: Diver Responsibility </b><br> Date:2/9/2002 2:38:00 PM Eastern Standard Time<br> From:<a href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*">captjt@mindspring.com</a><br> Reply-to:<a= href=3D"mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*">vbtech@cisatlantic.com</a><br> To:<a href=3D"mailto:Wahoodiver@ao*.co*">Wahoodiver@aol.com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*">Bakalite@bakalite.com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*">vbtech@cisatlantic.com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net">FLTechDiver@mikey.net</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:EANX@ao*.co*">EANX@aol.com</a><br> CC:<a href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</a><br> <i>Sent from the Internet </i><br> <br> <br> <br> Capt. Steve<br> You have been around a long time, it is not my intention to totally smash your dick in front of everyone, so I will also smash mine at the same time as I do yours.<br> <br> We both have had the unfortunate trips were divers have lost their life. For me the hard one was a friend name Tai Wilkerson. When his body popped to the surface we had no idea what had happen. Before the stand by diver could get his drysuit zipped and his fins on, I had already jumped off the bow of the boat with a line in my hand, the water was 41 degrees, I had nothing on but sweat pants. It was a hard task for me to hold on to him as they pulled the rope with me while holding on to him, all kinds of instructions from the boat were being yelled, I did all I could. I could hardly hear them. Not even once was I able to hold his head up and still hold onto the line that pulled us up to the boat during the rescue attempt. I'm sure I was feeling the effects of hypothermia, but I was able to hang on long enough to get him to the boat and on the deck for CPR. I am not a very strong surface swimmer. At that time I was also very lean and had been going to the gym. Once I got on some dry cloths, I put myself in the rotation to preform CPR. For nearly 2 hrs we did this before the CG arrived. Once they took him the handful that was doing CPR was totally drained. Tai was dead....... His death, the accident, and the lawsuit are well documented in the archives. The dropping of that lawsuit can be seen on my site, it should never have been filed from the start. Personally I thought everyone did all they could, those that did do CPR for that long were in my mind heros, but the family, their lawyer, and even some on this list chose to call us something else.<br> <br> Now its your turn, please tell me why you chose to let Tony Mafatone dive that rig off your boat and die, who jumped in and pulled him to the boat, did they hold his head up, what was the crew on the boat yelling, do you even know. It is well known that a huge debate was going on this list the days before and the day he died about that rig he was wearing, I called it the death rig. How come every diver who saw him dive said he would die in that rig and you let him do it on your boat, why couldn't you see what everyone else could. Please explain yourself if you can......<br> <br> You have a beef with the boat "Seeker", he is your main reason for reducing your Doria trips, he was taking your business away, that is the ax to grind for you and the reason you are saying what you are. Read what you yourself just wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote type=3Dcite cite>ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded.<br> captain steve bielenda</font></blockquote><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> &nbs= p; At 11:44 AM 2/9/02 -0500, Wahoodiver@ao*.co* wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3Dcite cite>Capt. Jt;<br> Based on the entire CG report about 75 pages long my question to you is; <br> How did Murley die, The CG report stated he drown at the surface, what has a waiver have to do with the situation, Murley can't waive someone else negligence.only his own. When someone in trouble at the surface screaming and thrashing with two people assisting him, how and why did he drown? One of the deck people watching, told the rescuer "his head is underwater" ?????????????<br> What has a wavier to do with this situtation?<br> ps: the captain and crew of any dive boat has the responsability and right to stop any diver from entering the water for any reason they see fit, from improper attutidude to you dont belong here and all the other reason in between, and you dont get any money refunded.<br> captain steve bielenda<br> <br> In a message dated 2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bakalite@ba*.co* writes:<br> <br> <br> <blockquote type=3Dcite cite>Subj:<b>Re: Diver Responsibility </b><br> Date:2/8/2002 4:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time<br> From:<a href=3D"mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*">Bakalite@bakalite.com</a><br> To:<a href=3D"mailto:vbtech@ci*.co*">vbtech@cisatlantic.com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:FLTechDiver@mikey.net">FLTechDiver@mikey.net</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:EANX@ao*.co*">EANX@aol.com</a><br> CC:<a href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</a><br> <i>Sent from the Internet </i><br> <br> <br> <br> John, I don't think you are being naive. The people who took this <br> guy diving deserve everything they get, but it is important that dive <br> operators have some protection from lawsuits, and that is usually <br> where the waiver comes in. If you buy a beer because you saw in the <br> commercials that all the guys who drink beer get the girls, but then <br> instead of getting girls you become a drunk, do you think you should <br> be able to sue the beer company? At some point people need to take <br> responsibility for themselves, because if the law tries to do it we=20 <br> are all going to get screwed.<br> <br> <br> John Mason Jr"." wrote:<br> ~<br> >JT,<br> >I agree Christopher Murley made the decision to dive signed the waivers and<br> >went diving, all his choice. I agree that you should be prepared for dying.<br> >You are also correct about families wanting to blame someone. Personally I<br> >think you signed, your responsibility, end of story. But in this case it<br> >seems that people had the attitude of he signed the waiver cash the check,<br> >instead of you don't belong here waiver or not. This may be a little naive,<br> >it is just my opinion.<br> ><br> >John<br> >----- Original Message -----<br> >From: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*><br> >To: <vbtech@ci*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>;<br> ><vbtech@ci*.co*>; <EANX@ao*.co*><br> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com><br> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:59 PM<br> >Subject: Re: Diver Responsibility<br> ><br> ><br> >> John, have you ever seen a Doria wavier from the Seeker? The one I have<br> >> states " I have been given the opportunity to review this document with<br> >> both my family and legal counsel." that is initialed and notarized long<br> >> before you ever get on the boat.<br> >><br> >> We as humans will die as part of living, one must face the fact that he or<br> >> she will someday die. Nothing will change this, that is reality. That is<br> >> why we make wills and prepare of families for this event. Those who do<br> >not<br> >> accept this fact will surely leave their family in debt and screwed.<br> >><br> >> Often families want to blame someone else for this poor planning and to<br> >> relieve the burden and guilt they feel for not being more involved in the<br> >> deceased persons life. Clearly, Lawyers have different reasons for<br> >> pursuing these cases and justice has nothing to do with it.<br> >><br> >><br> >><br> >><br> >> Mason Jr"." wrote:<br> >> >Curt,<br> >> >I agree that personal responsibility is the key. However in this case I<br> >> >think some folks should have dissuaded this gentleman from doing this<br> >kind<br> >> >of diving instead of enabling it. It has a bit of moral/ethical<br> >messiness<br> >> >to accept money from someone who by all accounts should not be there just<br> >> >because he signed a waiver.<br> >> ><br> >> >John Mason<br> >> >----- Original Message -----<br> >> >From: <EANX@ao*.co*><br> >> >To: <dell@di*.co*>; <trimix@ho*.co*>; <aocfishman@ho*.co*>;<br> >> ><FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; <vbtech@ci*.co*><br> >> >Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com><br> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:14 PM<br> >> >Subject: Diver Responsibility<br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> > > Again, another case of family members trying to make an excuse for a<br> >love<br> >> >one<br> >> > > lost.<br> >> > ><br> >> > > If you sign a waiver saying you accepts the risk involved then it<br> >should<br> >> >be<br> >> > > written in stone. All we need is one case being lost because of some<br> >> >crafty<br> >> > > (crooked) lawyer and all our diving could go to pot.<br> >> > ><br> >> > > Divers and their families need to start taking responsibility for what<br> >> >ever<br> >> > > they get themselves involved with. If not, then maybe they should<br> >stay<br> >> >home<br> >> > > in bed, but then again they might sue the mattress company for bed<br> >sores.<br> >> > ><br> >> > > This includes all divers, no matter their physical fitness.<br> >> > ><br> >> > ><br> >> > ><br> >> > > Curt Bowen<br> >> > ><br> >> > > Publisher Advanced Diver Magazine<br> >> > > 941-751-2360 Office<br> >> > > <a= href=3D"http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com/">www.advanceddivermagazine.co= m</a><br> >> > > AdvDvrMag@ao*.co*<br> >> > ><br> >> > ><br> >> > > Mailing address<br> >> > > Advanced Diver Magazine<br> >> > > 3115 48th Ave. Dr. East<br> >> > > Bradenton, FL 34203 USA<br> >> > ><br> >> > ><br> >> > > Rule of Exploration<br> >> > > "Publish or Perish"<br> > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br> >> > > To contact the list administrator, email<br> >> > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*<br> >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:<br> >> > > listserv@mi*.ne*<br> >> > > and in the *BODY* of the message type:<br> >> > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver<br> >> > ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to<br> >VBTech-request@ci*.=3D<br> >> >com >><br> >><br> >> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in<br> >the<br> >> water"<br> >><br> >> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more<br> >> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> >> Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> >><br> >><br> >><br> >><br> >> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to<br> >VBTech-request@ci*.=3D<br> >> com >><br> >><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><< Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to VBTech-request@ci*.=3D<br> >com >><br> <br> <br> -- <br> Paul B.<br> --<br> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<br> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</blockquote></blockquote><br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water"<br> <br> <font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more <br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> </blockquote><br> </font></u></blockquote><br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water"<br> <br> <font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more <br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> <br> </font></u></html> --=====================_6575379==_.ALT-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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