Dave, you are not going to get away with repeating lies, bullshit and
innuendo about me that you got from Rennaker and the others and then pretend
to take the high road. I know you by YOUR posts: a liar, and a low life
scumbag that I do not want to know any further.

Your friends are obvious. I know where the crap comes from, and that tells
me who your friends are. The fact that you picked some of the worst
instructors in cave diving as recommendations tells exactly what circles you
travel in - the bottom of the barrel.

Dave, people who repeat lies on a mailing list with total authority are
worthy of contempt.
Again, that is you.

If you are pretending you are somehow concerned about my "image", don't
bother. I don't care what you or anyone else things, and if I did I'd be
kissing all of your asses and being as nice as I could. You may think this
diving thing is some big deal. It is a walk in the park for me, and due to
the presence of people like you , "Full Cave Dave", and your instructor
mentors, I never admit to being a cave diver outside of these lists.

I don't need you or your little buddies as friends. I don't need any of your
friends to like me, or anyone else in diving for that matter, and after all
these years of dealing with these strokes, it is not about to change now.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Sams [mailto:dsams@al*.co*]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 4:40 PM
To: trey@ne*.co*; Techdiver List; Cavers List
Subject: RE: [Cavers] Aloha to the Group * Dave Sams*


Aloha again George, <sigh>

George your ability to make illogical deductions and completely miss the
point seems to know no bounds, but it's apparently related to paranoia.
Frankly, at this point, I pity you. So this will be brief and, as far as
I'm concerned, the end of this thread -- certainly you (or others) may
continue it as you wish, but without my participation.

>Dave, now you are 10 for 12 ( ten attacks out of 12 posts) and 2 attacking
>responses to private posts. I don't like you or you friends, that is why I
>posted privately to you - to remind you of that , and to remind you that so
>long as you and your friends persist is bullshiting about me, I will be
here
>to keep turning up the heat.

George you don't know me and, therefore, don't know who my friends are or
are not. My posts are solely my own and are specific responses to your
posts on Techdiver and Cavers. Let me be clear -- there is no conspiracy
against you. This is a figment of your imagination.

>Steve Irving, former WKPP diver, said on these lists years ago, " We will
be
>glad to stop telling the truth about you as soon as you stop lying about
>us". That about sums it up for the last 14 years in cave diving since the
>WKPP existed, with or without me.
>
>Irving stopped telling the truth because he stopped diving and does not get
>lied about anymore , since he is no longer a threat. The rest of us still
>get it constantly from people like Rennaker, and it gets repeated by the
>gleeful crowd of resentful nobodies who listen to him ( that be you ,
>Dave ).

Again, prior to subscribing to Techdiver I had no idea who you were --
all my impressions of your character have been formed by reading your
posts on this mailing list. You may find this hard to believe, but in my
experience, you're just not a topic of real world conversation.

>It is pretty funny that all any of you can come up with about me has
nothing
>to do with me, is totally untrue, or does not apply. My complaints about
the
>dive instructional community, and my contempt ( you were right about that)
>for them, is s function of WHAT THEY DO NOW.

The point is, your contempt (and harsh language) on these lists is
directed at anyone and everyone outside your circle of friends for
absolutely no reason at all. By this you're creating a self-fulfilling
prophecy. Remember principle of Occam's Razor? The simple truth is that
because you're not nice to them, people dislike you. This is why I
believe you are your own worst enemy.

>I don't care if Bill Rennaker is a retired auto worker turned cave
>instructor who lives in a  wheeless house trailer near Peacock springs. I
do
>think that being an enormous fat slob who has had a heart attack is not
>exactly prime instructor material, but my real beef with this one ( and I
>will do the rest of your list of buddies later), besides his lying about me
>and JJ ( got on here an said JJ killed a student , was forced to retract it
>by Lamar Hires, called the cops on me saying I threatened to kill him , and
>when the sheriff realized Rennaler was a lying mental case, he asked me if
I
>wanted to press charges - and the list goes on and one), is that he teaches
>that the buddy system is all wrong, that he does not understand correct
>methods or gear, and says things on here like "put your worst reg on the
>long hose ( and of course, stuff it), "know when to leave your buddy" -
>especially important for a husband and wife team according to Bill, "who's
>the most important diver", and a host of other moronic misdirects and
>machinations of reality that leave the student with no ability to progress
>without complete retraining.

Again, I'm not carrying anyone's water here -- if you have a problem with
Bill, take it up directly with Bill.

>This is not rocket science, and these are not rocket scientists. The
>situation got so bad in the opinion of me and JJ that we first laid down
the
>law in WKPP and used it to train people, and then JJ took that and formed
>GUE to get that information outside of the WKPP and to people who can't
come
>dive with WKKP to learn.
>
>By the way, I have totally discontinued the practice of trying to teach
>anyone who is not already 1000% on board in the WKPP, and I don't let
anyone
>near the dive sites now until they pass my tests. GUE is now the only route
>to learning this stuff first hand.
>
>Dave, you have successfully wasted my time again with your petty nonsense.
>Now I have to go to work and get ready to trade for the day. That means you
>win, everyone else loses, because I do not have time to put out any of the
>deco information , other than one preliminary thing  I wrote to get the
>discussion started.

George this claim is just another fallacy -- you can't blame someone else
for your actions -- you make (and are responsible for) your own choices.

BTW, mahalo for the deco information (both what you've posted and that to
follow); this is why I subscribed to Techdiver in the first place.

>Send us all some more of your misinformed bullshit and personal attacks so
I
>can waste some more time answering them. Your will be revered in N Florida
>for "standing up to George". Keep it up, keep wasting everyone's time. Also
>give me the name of one more of your prized instructors so I can tell you
>what my issues are with that one.

George I've come to believe that you're one of the best technical and
cave divers in the world. It saddens me that you've reduced yourself to
insulting and ranting at people you've never met on an internet mailing
list. Frankly, at this moment, I'm embarrassed for us both and have no
desire to prolong this thread. Thus I withdraw.

To the lists: I extend my sincere apologies regarding this thread and
thank you all for your forbearance. By way of explanation I can only
offer that we are all flawed and that those flaws ought not overawe that
which is worthy in each of us.

Dave


[previous messages snipped]
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