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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C1A0C8.9B16F180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look, idiot, there is no excuse for doing things the way these guys do it. Helmet in the dry cave is one thing, the rest of what you are saying reflects that fact that you don't do jack shit, and don't know. Reinhard explores sump/dry stuff that you can't even understand the severity of, and he has no problem bringing g all the right gear and DIR at the same time. You guys keep on trying to tell us all why idiocy and the "every man for himself", "fuck your buddies", Star Wars Bar Scene mentality is such a noble thing. The fact is that no matter how well you try to articulate stupidity, it is still stupidity. -----Original Message----- From: JDisler401@ao*.co* [mailto:JDisler401@ao*.co*] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:43 AM To: scoff_cavedivinggroup@ho*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: Re: Helmets for cave diving. What's the deal? Greetings scoff, Well said and true to reality are the words you have shared. I think the most basic philosophy of anyone who dry caves is to wear a helmet. For the sake of argument, or to perhaps conclude this argument... Imagine a sump (small, large, within any stratum, etc..) which necessitates a dive for the dry caver to reach the airfilled cave beyond. The experienced dry caver (that is someone who actually dry caves) will, A. Most likely choose to wear a helmet to reach the sump. B. Most likely wish to have a helmet to explore the airfilled sections beyond the sump. Personally I would choose all of the above, but If I had to choose between A or B, I would unquestionably select B for the simple reason, that is the location where Murphy could make some very serious problems. So now that the use of proper headgear has been selected, the choice of lighting becomes a second consideration. The light selected must have, A. The ability to become attach to the helmet which ultimately will become one with the caver.(This due to the reasons you have outlined, hands free lighting for the purpose of negotiating the airfilled cave passage, etc.) B.Have extended burn times, because of the nature of this activity,(aka sump diving). C.Desirable power to weight ratio and durability. D.Usable both in and out of the submerged sections of passage and without the need for reconfiguration of gear. In other words, to go from dry cave mode to dive mode and back with as little hassle as possible. So now the marriage of headgear and lighting has been made and hopefully the suitability of same has been made somewhat clear. How would the helmet best be carried through the sump? I'd suggest it would be on the head of the explorer. The above method equates to less extraneous gear which simplifies the logistics. Scoff, as you also have pointed out, it is possible to wear a helmet mounted light without blinding team members. It is also possible, given adequate visibility, to shield the light to search for a team members light or to signal same. I agree that the suitability of DIR has been well noted and I believe that some conditions do support it's use better than others. Also, I am not suggesting this is the only way to dive in sumps, and would like to hear from others who have successfully used DIR for actual sump dives. What equipment configuration was used to explore the airfilled passage beyond the sump? Anyone? Disclaimer, I do not claim to be an expert on any type of diving, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. "Silt Happens" JD ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C1A0C8.9B16F180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4912.300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D316100014-19012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Look,=20 idiot, there is no excuse for doing things the way these guys do it. = Helmet in=20 the dry cave is one thing, the rest of what you are saying reflects that = fact=20 that you don't do jack shit, and don't know. Reinhard explores sump/dry = stuff=20 that you can't even understand the severity of, and he has no problem = bringing g=20 all the right gear and DIR at the same time. You guys keep on trying to = tell us=20 all why idiocy and the "every man for himself", "fuck your buddies", = Star Wars=20 Bar Scene mentality is such a noble thing. The fact is that no matter = how well=20 you try to articulate stupidity, it is still = stupidity.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> JDisler401@ao*.co* = [mailto:JDisler401@ao*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 18, 2002 = 12:43=20 AM<BR><B>To:</B> scoff_cavedivinggroup@ho*.co*;=20 techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Helmets for cave diving. = What's=20 the deal?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20 size=3D2>Greetings scoff, <BR><BR>Well said and true to reality are = the words=20 you have shared. <BR><BR>I think the most basic philosophy of anyone = who dry=20 caves is to wear a helmet. <BR><BR>For the sake of argument, or to = perhaps=20 conclude this argument... <BR>Imagine a sump (small, large, within any = stratum, etc..) which necessitates a dive for the dry caver to = reach the=20 airfilled cave beyond. <BR><BR>The experienced dry caver (that is = someone who=20 actually dry caves) will, <BR>A. Most likely choose to wear a helmet = to reach=20 the sump. <BR><BR>B. Most likely wish to have a helmet to explore the=20 airfilled sections beyond the sump. <BR><BR>Personally I would choose = all of=20 the above, but If I had to choose between A or B, I would = unquestionably=20 select B for the simple reason, that is the location where Murphy = could make=20 some very serious problems. <BR><BR>So now that the use of proper = headgear has=20 been selected, the choice of lighting becomes a second consideration. = <BR>The=20 light selected must have, <BR><BR>A. The ability to become attach to = the=20 helmet which ultimately will become one with the caver.(This due to = the=20 reasons you have outlined, hands free lighting for the purpose of = negotiating=20 the airfilled cave passage, etc.) <BR><BR>B.Have extended burn times, = because=20 of the nature of this activity,(aka sump diving). <BR><BR>C.Desirable = power to=20 weight ratio and durability. <BR><BR>D.Usable both in and out of the = submerged=20 sections of passage and without the need for reconfiguration of gear. = In other=20 words, to go from dry cave mode to dive mode and back with as little = hassle as=20 possible. <BR><BR>So now the marriage of headgear and lighting has = been made=20 and hopefully the suitability of same has been made somewhat clear. = <BR>How=20 would the helmet best be carried through the sump? I'd suggest = it would=20 be on the head of the explorer. <BR><BR>The above method equates to = less=20 extraneous gear which simplifies the logistics. <BR><BR>Scoff, as you = also=20 have pointed out, it is possible to wear a helmet mounted light = without=20 blinding team members. <BR>It is also possible, given adequate = visibility, to=20 shield the light to search for a team members light or to signal same. = <BR><BR>I agree that the suitability of DIR has been well noted and I = believe=20 that some conditions do support it's use better than others. = <BR><BR>Also, I=20 am not suggesting this is the only way to dive in sumps, and would = like to=20 hear from others who have successfully used DIR for actual sump dives. = <BR>What equipment configuration was used to explore the airfilled = passage=20 beyond the sump? Anyone? <BR><BR>Disclaimer, I do not claim to be an = expert on=20 any type of diving, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last = night.=20 <BR><BR>"Silt Happens" JD</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C1A0C8.9B16F180-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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