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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:17:30 -0600
From: Chuck Noe <chucknoe@ca*.co*>
To: wgrogan@dc*.ne*, quest@gu*.co*, techdiver@aquanaut.com,
     Houston Cave Divers
Subject: Re: DIR Fatalities

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Please allow me to respond.

Wendell wrote:

> OK,
> Lets stop playing Taliban vs. Muhajadeen.
> How about if someone actually coughs up some hard data?
>

Agreed.

> All this posturing is not getting anyone anywhere.
> Query,
> 1) What were the actual reports of the people who were there when this
> happened?
> 2) What where the results of the Sheriff's inquiry?
> 3) What did the coroner's report say?
>

This information should be available in the report of the investigator
and IUCRR representative, Scott Hunscucker. I too await the release of
his report.

> Anyone who doesn't know, STFU!
> Thank you,
> Wendell
>

And Wendell also wrote:

> That's reasonable.
> It gets back to the original question about if there were any fatalities
> involving people who were strictly following DIR rules.  It appears the
> answer is "no".
>

Agreed. Jonathan absolutely violated DIR standards. I never said
anything other than that.

> Ergo, unless there is something else forthcoming, lets just leave it at
> that.
> One can argue about whether or not it is necessary to follow all the DIR
> rules, but unless it can be proven that someone followed everything,
> including physical fitness, bottle marking, gear setup, etc. and then
> bought it, the discussion should be over.
>

As I've said all along, I believe and follow DIR principles.

> Wendell
>

And Wendell also wrote:

> To reply to myself, let me also point out that I think we can all learn
> by understanding how someone dies.
>

Yes, absolutely. All I want is for the facts to be known. There should
be no misrepresentations.

>   None of us can learn by trying to
> place blame.
>

This accident is not the fault of George or the WKPP. There should be no
defense needed.

>   The latter does not bring the dead back to life, nor is it
> likely to alter anyone's habits or dive preferences.
>

But hopefully, learning the cause of the accident may prevent another
similar one in the future.


> Wendell
>

Thanks for remaining reasonable here Wendell.

Chuck

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Please allow me to respond.
<p>Wendell wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>OK,
Lets stop playing Taliban vs. Muhajadeen.
How about if someone actually coughs up some hard data?</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Agreed.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>
All this posturing is not getting anyone anywhere.
Query,
1) What were the actual reports of the people who were there when this
happened?
2) What where the results of the Sheriff's inquiry?
3) What did the coroner's report say?</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>This information should be available in the report of the
investigator
and IUCRR representative, Scott Hunscucker. I too await the release of
his report.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>
Anyone who doesn't know, STFU!
Thank you,
Wendell</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>And Wendell also wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>That's reasonable.
It gets back to the original question about if there were any fatalities
involving people who were strictly following DIR rules.  It appears the
answer is "no".</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Agreed. Jonathan absolutely violated DIR standards. I never said
anything other than that.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>
Ergo, unless there is something else forthcoming, lets just leave it at
that.
One can argue about whether or not it is necessary to follow all the DIR
rules, but unless it can be proven that someone followed everything,
including physical fitness, bottle marking, gear setup, etc. and then
bought it, the discussion should be over.</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>As I've said all along, I believe and follow DIR principles.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>
Wendell</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>And Wendell also wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>To reply to myself, let me also point out that I think we can all learn
by understanding how someone dies.</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Yes, absolutely. All I want is for the facts to be known. There
should be no misrepresentations.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>  None of us can learn by trying to
place blame.</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>This accident is not the fault of George or the WKPP. There should
be no defense needed.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>  The latter does not bring the dead back to life, nor is it
likely to alter anyone's habits or dive preferences.</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>But hopefully, learning the cause of the accident may prevent
another
similar one in the future.
<br> 
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>
Wendell</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Thanks for remaining reasonable here Wendell.
<p>Chuck</html>

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