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<pre wrap="">>> The short version of the answer is that we came up
with this ( 12 on , 6
off )</pre>
<b>George , What about when the deco time on O2 is only 20 - 25 minutes only
? </b><b><br>
</b><br>
Trey wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MABBKNLDLNNBFCMCJFMDCEFBDJAA.trey@ne*.co*">
<pre wrap=""> The short version of the answer is that we came up with this
( 12 on , 6<br>off )by trying everything and arriving at that. We knew from
any of our<br>diving that long exposures to higher ppo2s left us feeling
like we had a<br>chest cold. We started out with the usual crap that is
taught out there ( 20<br>on then break ) and found that to be useless. We
found loss of vital<br>capacity with these regimens. Now we have no such
negative results.<br><br> The oxygen takes less than 12 minutes to reach
as high an effective<br>saturation level as is useful. Beyond that the body
reacts by constricting<br>blood vessels everywhere which limits off gassing,
by trying to protect the<br>lining of the lungs and hence thickens the
transfer area by adding cells and<br>excreting mucous which impedes gas
transfer, and by causing swelling of the<br>lung tissue which further
reduces gas exchange capability, not to mention<br>scarring and long term
damage that in my opinion will
come back to haunt the<br>agencies who teach the baloney.<br><br>
Returning to a more normoxic ppo2 will reverse these effects. However,
if<br>you do not return soon enough, the effects take a lot longer to
reverse. The<br>big and important thing here is not to depend on reversing
this action, but<br>to preempt it and keep it from fully developing and thus
make what does<br>occur easier to reverse and at the same time actually
improve your off<br>gassing by opening the capillaries back up and allowing
gas to escape from<br>the tissues into the blood. This "toggling" back and
forth has proven to be<br>the absolute best method of gas use in
decompression. DIR deco.<br><br> If you fail to do this at any point in
the deco using high ppo2s you will<br>merely be holding gas in tissues which
may expand before it can be removed<br>as you move up - another massive flaw
in all of the existing deco programs.<br><br> As you get higher in the
water column, off gassing is more safely a
nd<br>effectively achieved by the moving the gradient and letting gas bubble
into<br>the bloodstream and be caught and removed by the lungs, but lower
down this<br>will not work - one more huge flaw in deco
programs.<br><br> You really should look on the WKPP site and read some
of my profiles and<br>decompressions on the longer dives to see all the
massive deviations from<br>what is thought to be correct by the
agencies.<br><br> In fact, I will tell you right now that this is just
like deep air - the<br>same idiots who fought for their precious deep air
are the ones who teach<br>the most incorrect deco and theories of deco. The
same people - give them a<br>wide berth in all areas of diving since you can
NOT teach pigs to sing.<br><br> If want real information, come to the
proven sources.<br><br><br><br><br><br>-----Original
Message-----<br>From: Charles Roth [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:divr555@ho*.co*">mailto:divr555@hotmail.com</a>]<br>Sent:
Sunday,
December 09, 2001 2:53 AM<br>To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:trey@ne*.co*">trey@netdor.com</a>; <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</a><br>Subject
: RE: Oxygen Clock<br><br><br>Trey,<br>In fear of sounding stupid,
yes, I would really like to know how you all<br>came up with this. Or at
least point me in the right direction to find the<br>resources about this.
Thanks.<br><br>Chuck R<br><br><br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:trey@ne*.co*">trey@netdor.com</a> (Trey)<br>To: "Isaac
Callicrate" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:icallicrate@ho*.co*"><icallicrate@hotmail.com></a>, <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:mjblackmd@ya*.co*"><mjblackmd@yahoo.com></a>,<br><a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"><techdiver@aquanaut.com></a><br
>Subject: RE: Oxygen Clock<br>Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 07:35:10
-0500<br><br><br>Isaac, we have found that 12 minutes on, 6 minutes
off is the ideal. We<br>only<br>do oxygen at 30 feet in a habitat where
we have caves that accommodate<br>this.<br>Otherwise we do oxygen at 20
feet or slightly less in the water with the<br>same schedule. If anyone
wants to go back over why we do this and how we<br>determine bottom gas ,
deco gas and exposure ( or how we arrived at what we<br>do), I can repeat it
.<br><br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Isaac Callicrate
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:icallicrate@ho*.co*">mailto:icallicrate@hotmail.com</a>]<br>S
ent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 2:51 AM<br>To: <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:mjblackmd@ya*.co*">mjblackmd@yahoo.com</a>; <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</a><br>Subject
: Re: Oxygen Clock<br><br><br>Im not sure why everyone is harping on
who this guy is or what he<br>has posted<br>in the past instead of
answering his questions.<br>Am I missing something in the charter that says
you have to rate an<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">answer<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">or that previous posts disqualify you from getting
one?<br>Ill give it a shot even though there are probably more informed
qualified<br>people on this list that should be.<br>I see WKPP as
crossing the grey area between recreational and<br>working
diving<br>(watch out for OSHA, ADC, and USCG). They are performing dives
where more<br>compartments are saturated than most other recreational
profiles.<br>They have<br>been diving similar profiles over and over so
have built up an amount of<br>historical data combined with some doppler
research that they have used<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">make assumptions about their profiles.<br>I dont
think anyone can say right or wrong yet. If their people<br>arent
having<br>DCS manifestations or O2 toxicity issues than I would
definately<br>say that by<br>being the guinea pig and letting the rest
reap the rewards of the<br>data they<br>are rising above.<br>Please do
the math on a Navy standard TT 6A with 50/50 @ 165' and 100% @<br>60'. Do it
on a Navy single exposure of 100% at 25' for 240 minutes. Why<br>havent you
e-mailed them? Please CC me when you do. I think it is<br><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:publicaffairs@ne*.na*.na*.mi*">publicaffairs@nedu.navsea.navy.mil&l
t;/a><br>WKPP isnt the only one that challenges theoretical formulas
and<br>assumptions<br>with historical data. Commercial, military,
hyperbaric facilities all<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">have<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">modified the standard thinking on the CNS
clock.<br>My personal feelings, I wouldnt recommend pushing the clock on a
working<br>dive when not required. For recreational dives, there is no
need<br>to push it<br>when you are having fun. If you use a habitat or a
chamber or<br>maybe at rest<br>during deco with surface support, the risk
is minimized.<br>I dont think that taking breaks off O2 is going to
significantly<br>effect your<br>susceptibility to a CNS hit. That is
speculation and if anyone has data<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">to<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">prove otherwise I would love to examine and try
to push it through to<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">some<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">people.<br>About cumulative pulmonary
issues, I would absolutely take breaks every<br>20-25 min for extended
exposures. With increases as neccessary.<br>The only big no-no I see is deco
on 100% @ >1.6 w/o a ffm, hat, or in a<br>controlled environment. I dont
think WKPP is doing that. I think<br>they use a<br>habitat for extended
oxygen. Their protocol incorperates breaks between<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">O2<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">periods.<br>What data is NOAA basing their
CNS clocking off of? Historical or<br>Empirical?<br>Do you side with
someones calculator or slide rule?<br>For technical diving I think everyone
should be taught to do a<br>personal risk<br>analysis for Accelerated
Deco vs O2 tox.<br>Where do you draw the line? We can use good models for
DCS and pretty<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">much<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">say if you do this profile you will get
bent. O2 clock is more like<br>speeding. Doing 25 is safer than 65 or 100 or
20,000. We dont know<br>where you<br>cross the line to get in a
guaranteed O2 "accident". We need more data.<br>All said, everyone enjoy
your hit, have the ME e-mail me.<br><br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From: "Michael J. Black" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:mjblackmd@ya*.co*"><mjblackmd@yahoo.com></a><br>To:
Aquanaut Mail <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"><techdiver@aquanaut.com></a><br
>Subject: Oxygen Clock<br>Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:26:40 -0800
(PST)<br></pre>
</blockquote>
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lt;br></pre>
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