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Hi all,
Thanks to all who responded to my query about drysuits suitable for wreck and
cave diving. I received lots of useful information, so I thought I might
summarise for those people who mentioned that they too were in the market for a
drysuit.
It seems that everyone likes each type of suit for a different reason!
Here are the responses in chronological order:
______________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric Maiken <eapg243@ea*.oa*.uc*.ed*>
Saw your question about drysuits. I have an opinion (or three) based on my
experience with all three types of drysuits you mention.
10 yrs ago, I bought my first drysuit. I got a great deal on a coated nylon
suit. I treated it roughly (beach diving, bottom crawling, wave bouncing....)
It was destroyed due to "ab-use" and poor construction within two yrs. Cost per
dive ~ $500us/100 dives = $5. (half of these dives were wet, so they deserve a
discounted rate!
I followed by stepping up to a Viking sport (rubberized) after moving to
seattle (with 5 - 10 degree water temperatures). The suit sprung its first leak
after my 5th dive with it. The 100 or so other leaks it sprung before its
demise were easy to patch (with bicycle tube patches), however, after a year
the boarders of the patches cut into the suit and became even bigger leaks...
The only way to effectively patch a vulcanized suit is to smear urathane guu on
the inside fabric. The fatal flaw of vulcanized suits is that the water seal
(the exterior rubber coat) has no abrasion resistance. Furthermore, the
vulcanized material in these suits has no flexibility, so the suits are very
baggy giving large swimming resistance, and the need for lots of weight--not to
mention the large bubble of air which migrates around the suit as the diver
changes attitude. The best thing about viking suits are the dry-seals. To this
day, i dive a viking dry hood and viking heavy-duty wrist seals on....my DUI cf
200 sx. cost per dive ~ 900us/200 dives = 4.50 (many wet though....)
I bought a CF suit 4 yrs ago when i started serious (deep/penetration) wreck
diving (necessitated by move to populous south california, where all the easy
finds are long gone....) As you, i cringed at the $1500 price tag of the cf200,
but after taking a look around at what all the "big boys" were wearing (see any
photo of tek/wrek diving in temperate water), i worked out a purchase plan on a
dui ("dewy"). 200 dives later, i've replaced a few seals but have only had 1
leak!. The cf material is incredibly rugged and reliable. The fit on the suits
is near custom, allowing me to drop ~ 3 kilos from my viking belt. I believe
that those divers who do extreme diving and must purchase their own equipment,
ultimately recognize the economy in cf200 material. My current cost per dive
1500/200 = 7.50, and still declining....When you factor in the life support
aspects of the suit (eg: staying dry for a 1 hour hang in 5 degree water as i
did in british columbia, canada last december) there is in my mind only one
choice.
In summary: you can pay now or you can pay later....
______________________________________________________________________________
From: boykin@gt*.co* (Joseph Boykin)
I have a DUI TLS. I love it.
Yes, it can get punctured, and that's a serious disadvantage. The advantage to
me is that they are very comfortable underwater and I have much more
flexability than I do with e.g. the CF-200.
I don't weare overalls of anything else over the suit- I take my risks and,
yes, I've put a few holes in the suit over the years. I'd rather do that than
have less mobility.
This is something else to think about.
FYI: I don't do any cave diving, but I'm a pretty serious wreck diver and
instructor.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: FRUSHOUR@uc*.in*.ed*
Neoprene is the choice for low cost. Vulcanized rubber the choice for longest
life. The laminates seem to lay somewhere in between. Crushed neoprene for
flexibility. If the over riding factor is cost you may wish to try the Sea
Elite suits Divers Supply in Ga and Fla sells. A custom neoprene suit sells
for about $700 depending on your choice of features. The only one of these I
have actualy seen was well made (in Canada).
______________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Smitka" <Curt.Smitka@me*.um*.ed*>
Several factors you should consider are repairability and durability. All of
the suit you are considering offer very little insulation value. Warmth will
be determined by the underwear you are wearing.
Repairability & Durability Vulcanized Rubber (Viking) - The most easily
repaired suit in the field. These suits were originally designed for
commercial and military applications and designed to be totally repaired by the
user. Most punctures can be repaired to divable condition in less than 10
minnutes (punctures in cuffs and neck seals can be repaired with bicycle tube
patches, suit punctures can be quicly and durable patched with duct tape).
Cuffs and neckseals can be totally replaced in 30 minutes. Zippers take a
couple of hours to do correctly. Wrist seals are availble in several
thicknesses, I recommend the viking heavy duty for caving purposes. Suit are
available in several thickness for durability. Vulcanized rubber strecthes in
all directions and does not inhibit flexibility.
Nylon Laminate - Hard to repair in the field. Glues for the seals usually need
and extended curing time. Suit surface does not hold quick patches well.
Durability is variable with thickness of material. The suit material does not
strecth and can severally limit flexibility.
Crushed Neoprene - Hard to perform quick repairs the neoprene needs to be dry
to effectively patch and in some cases may not patch well. The material is
very durable and does stretch in all directions so flexibility is not limited.
I have owned and/or extensively used suits from all of these materials. I will
only spend my own money on a Viking. I have had nylon laminates fall apart in
one year, and I do not like how a CF2000 dives. I currently use a Viking Pro
with heavy duty wrist seals. I have never punctured the suit or a wrist seal
on a dive. I have abraisons on the suit and wrist seals that would be holes in
other suits. When I have a major abraison on the suit I cover it with a patch
for added safety. Wrist seal I replace. I have never missed a dive do to
problems with the suit. I carry spare wrist and neck seals, spare parts for
the exhaust and inflator valves, and six inch duct tape to seal around the
zipper if it developes a leak on a trip. I have over 750 dives on my current
suit and expect it will be good for another 1500 dives at least.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: Andrew Wright <wandrew@rt*.ns*.go*.au*>
I have had a CF200 for 2.5 years now and highly recommend them for Aussie
conditions; caving/wrecking/ad-hoc club diving. One of the benefits of the
crushed neoprene is that you get your warmth thru underclothes for
colder/deeper conditions and in summer the 4mm of neoprene is sufficient.
The ability to just climb in to the suit wearing a t-shirt and shorts is great
especially when your wetsuit is'nt the most optimum fit anymore!
Friends have gone for cheaper alternatives and have had various problems with
the new batch of European/Pommy brands. The Aquion brand is good also but is a
true trilaminate.
The DUIs are v expensive especially the made to measure but if you do have
access to US or UK dive shops it's much cheaper. Underclothes are the most
heavily taxed. I got 20% of my CF200 thru an instructor discount and then got
17.5% off by reclaiming the Value added tax - VAT from the UK.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: Ronnie Bell <rbell@cp*.or*>
I use a Poseiden Neoprene suit. My logic was to consider all the possibilities
that could occur. Suit flooding not only is a distinct possibility I know of
two divers who were forced to make the decision to surface and omit some srious
decompression stops because they were seriously scared they were going
hypothermic and about to drop off the deco line. A shell suit when flooded i
basically a BAGGIE. Yes thinsulate helps some, but imagine the same situation
with a neoprene suit and thinsulate. Which would you rather have? Also, the
neoprene suit (in my case) was cheaper than a comparable quailty shell suit.
Can't figure out why .
______________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Irving <sirving@fr*.sc*.fs*.ed*>
I had used a TLS suit for over 3 years, and now have switched to a Neoprene. I
don't do much wreck diving anymore, so I can only tell you from a cave diving
point of view. The Viking suits, while being great suits, and very well made.
Are not good for caves. They are heavy (in water) and cause drag. Fabric
suits tend to be "slower" due to the amount of gas traped, and moving around in
the suit. While all suits will slow us down by causing drag and being hard to
swim in, the Harvey's Neoprene suit seems to be the most popular model used for
any serious diving now a days. When depth and extreme exposure are a
concideration, some still prefer the DUI Tri Laminate Suit (TLS). Their
thinking being that they can ware thick Thinsulate underware and thus, stay
warm. By customizing a pair of DUI C200 underware you can fit a Harvey's over
it quite comfortably, and now have the best of both worlds. The fastest suit,
and the maxium warmth. The CF200 suit is the slowest swiming suit we've seen
in a high flow cave. It would probably be one of the best for wreck diving
though. They are about bullet proof. I hope this helps. I wish I had known
10 years ago what I know now. It would have saved me a few thousand $$$.
Harvey's can be bought for a round $500. There are other suits of a similar
design and price, but we have not had good luck with repeated dives and staying
dry.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: <AHDNN1A.DDRAKE01@ed*.co*>
The cf-200 is a bit heavy compared to the tri-lam. About the $ One of my buds
has a Viking condom, but has ripped the seat twice on the boat while suiting
up.
It makes for a real cold hang when you try to tough it out and then realize you
miscalculated how cold and urgent your releif needs are when you have 38 F
water coming in on your bum! I always laugh when I think about it and then call
him and yell at him for not aborting in favor of some patchwork.
I dive alot of jagged edged metal wrecks and have only ONE tiny puncture in my
suit--from a cable which will get through anything. They aren't as hard to
repair as you might think. Aqua seal and accelerater will get you back in the
water in 15 minutes. It *never* rips in normal use. I've had a car trunk
latch chew on it too--no leaks except my temper.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: Jason Rogers <gasdive@sy*.DI*.oz*.au*>
I use a taskmaster neoprene and I wear overalls over it when I work but not for
wreck diving. It has just started to leak after about 500 dives. (2 years)
but it is still warmish. It cost $800. from peter fields in coogee. His
number is in the sydney yellow pages under "divers" but I don't have it handy.
Paul uses the top of the line hot'n'dry but it is usually cold and wet. I've
been on lots of boats with dry divers and they were all damp. At Southern
Cross the other day, they said "Jason, you're the only one here who's suit
doesn't leak" It had started about a week before :(
As near as I can tell *all* sport diving suits leak. But they are all so much
more comfy than vikings that it doesn't matter.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: Dr S Davison <sd1621@gg*.co*.uk*>
I started with an aquion membrane suit and when it was away for repair I
'stupidly' borrowed a friends DUI crushed neoprene CF-200. Needless to say I
now have a CF-200. I too wanted the advantage of neoprene - robust and
flexible, but for it not to be too heavy, hence the choce of the DUI. I found
the non flexibility of the membrance suit too constrictive but liked it from
the weight anlge. For me personally I would pick the CF-200 again tomorrow if
I had to.
Another reason I went for the CF-200 is so that when I'm diving relatively warm
water I can limit the number of clothes underneath - I'll be taking it to
Ginnie in October when I do apprentice and full cave, but then during the
winter in the UK I can pile on the undersuits!! It appeared to have a greater
range of possilbe use than the heavier compressed neoprene suits.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Sallot" <KEN@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*>
Up here in Florida Cave Country the two popular dry suits are the Crushed
Neoprene (specifically the DUI), or a regular Neoprene suit. Most people
diving the DUI agree that it's a great suit to get in and out of, but the drag
created by it is worse then a regular Neoprene dry suit. It's been recommended
to me to purchase a regular Neoprene dry suit when I do finally go dry (next
fall most likely). I'll probably pick up the Poseidon Unisuit which is about
1/3 the price of that DUI.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: "HeimannJ" <heimannj@ma*.nd*.gt*.co*>
I have used a Viking Pro for about four years. I decided against the (slightly
less expensive at the time) DUI CF200 because I had a rental DUI trilaminate
that flooded on me, and I swore I'd never buy DUI. The Viking has lasted well,
but has about a dozen patches in it. On one occasion I put a two inch cut in
the leg during a silt-out inside a wreck, and had to endure a 30 minute hang in
a half-flooded suit. Since I now do trimix dives which occasionally require
90+ minute hangs, I worry about this.
I am seriously thinking about the DUI CF200 for my next suit. It fits me
almost like a wetsuit, whereas my Viking is baggy, and it is much less prone to
cuts.
Neoprene drysuits like the Unisuit are an option you seem not to have
considered. I know many cave divers who like them because they require less
insulation, and less air, than shell suits. They are thus less prone to shifts
in bouyancy when the air moves around inside the suit, which increases fine
bouyancy control. Many wreck divers like them because they provide bouyancy
and warmth even when completely flooded.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: chris@ab*.co* (Christopher M. Parrett)
For what its worth, I bought the DUI CF200. I spent about $2,000 on my suit,
and LOVE it!! It is very comfortable, extreamly strong, and genrealy pleasnt
to be in.
The big drawback, it absorbs quite a bit of water, and does not dry out very
fast. I bought mine solely for caving, and I think it was a wise investment.
______________________________________________________________________________
David Giddy, | Voice: +61 3 253 6388
Telstra Research Laboratories, | Fax: +61 3 253 6144
P.O. Box 249, Rosebank MDC, 3169, AUSTRALIA | Internet: d.giddy@tr*.oz*.au*
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