Not because the dumb guy wants a set of redundant 100lb bungee wings, a pair
of steel beauchat 190´s for doubles with a shorty 3mm suit, leg scooters and
a closed circuit rb for back up, I will sell it to him, even if his buy help
my business, cause he is going to get hurt. That´s what I´m saying.

I would NOT screw my customers to make money, that´s BS, if you come here
you´ll get the real thing, don´t you realize that if you fool somebody he
would not trust you ever again.

You can dive with however you want, in whichever configuration or gear, or
even sell them your old stroke gear too, is your choice. ( doesn´t mean you
shouldn´t feel guilty about it )

I don´t want to waste my time, with who don´t care or don´t wants to listen
and jeopardized the whole team safety in any dive I do, if they are willing
to learn, then is NO problem, for either of us.


----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Schultz <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
To: Nicolai M. Tousaint <nick@ak*.co*>
Cc: Steve Schultz <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>; terry michael
<OEA51@go*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <cavers@ca*.co*>;
<quest@gu*.co*>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Full DIR Center, was RE: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and SS to Merge


>
> Dude, what are you talking about?
>
> Who said anything about poor instruction?  There is no poor instruction
going on.  Stick to the facts.
>
> Some people will never DIR.  Some people will never own a great piece of
gear.
>
> When one of these guys walks into a shop and turns away advice from a GUE
instructor, why should the shop not sell the guy the traditional OW gear
that he insists he wants.  It's helping to keep the shop in business.  The
guy is going to throw money at another shop that is carrying the gear he
wants.
>
> You say:
> "No stroke divers and gear will be welcome, as I won4t dive with
> them, I will teach exclusively GUE training only  for the serious diver
> wanting to put the required effort, we are not trying to pretend we are
> committed, as we really believed that the DIR system is the safest way to
> go."
>
> I think that is somewhat of a poor attitude.  I take inexperienced divers
diving all the time.  Almost none of them know what they're doing, and they
never will without a little mentoring.  Maybe if these divers see a DIR
diver put on the gear quickly and easily, then dive with perfect buoyancy,
and just have an all round fun day, they will be inclined to take a
Fundamentals course and buy some Halcyon gear.  Wow, more profit your DIR
Akumel shop.  You can serve the DIR community better.
>
> I'll say it again:
> If someone is never going to DIR, and turns down the shop's advice, then I
say it's fair game to hose them by selling the gear they want.  Are they
really getting hosed if they get the gear they want?
>
> It's a win-win situation.
>
> ss
>
> On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Nicolai M. Tousaint wrote:
>
> > So maybe they can teach stroke diving too, as long as they teach you a
good
> > class ?
> > let them dive with that gear in the same boat , as long you are not
there ?
> >
> > If you are really committed to the DIR philosophy, you are all the way,
> >
> > Actually GUE and Halcyon are sacrificing profit for quality training and
> > equipment, and you will not find stroke gear that sells there or a cheap
> > class with many c-cards included, when will the dive shops committed to
DIR
> > diving as well ?
> >
> > By the way, if you come diving with us in the new Akumal DIR Center, in
the
> > Yucatan wonderland, expect no stroke gear for sell rent or use in the
> > premises, as well ONLY custom DIR diving programs will be available ( to
all
> > levels ), No stroke divers and gear will be welcome, as I won4t dive
with
> > them, I will teach exclusively GUE training only  for the serious diver
> > wanting to put the required effort, we are not trying to pretend we are
> > committed, as we really believed that the DIR system is the safest way
to
> > go.
> >
> > best
> > Nicolai M. Toussaint
> > Akumal DIR Center
> > www.gue.com
> > Quality Dive Instruction, in Mexico4s cave country, the best in the
world.
> > www.halcyon.net
> > DIR equipment repairs, sales, maintenance
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steve Schultz <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
> > To: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> > Cc: Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>; <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>;
> > <jimholcomb@x-*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>;
<cavers@ca*.co*>;
> > <quest@gu*.co*>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 11:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and SS to Merge
> >
> >
> > >
> > > My favourite DIR shop is set up with a Halcyon wall, and a non-Halcyon
> > wall.
> > >
> > > On the Halcyon wall, you find, all the good stuff like the wings,
> > harness/BP, reels, spools, liftbags, etc.  On the non-Halcyon wall,
there is
> > an array of ridiculous stuff like snorkels, tank-bangers, and various
> > gadget-type stuff that is commonly found in most PADI OW classes.
> > >
> > > The Halcyon gear often sells itself on its own merit, however some
> > customers come in wanting a standard OW BC like they learned on, or that
> > their instructor used, or simply because it is cheaper.  The staff will
> > recommend Halcyon and take the time answer any questions and give
complete
> > explanations.  There are however some customers that cannot be swayed,
and
> > will end up buying half-a-dozen tank bangers so that they can signal
their
> > buddy the same way the cool PADI divemaster did on the boat.
> > >
> > > I do not frown on the dive shop for selling this kind of gear.  This
is
> > one dive shop that has bent over backwards for me.  There aren't many
shops
> > that will let me mix my own gas, fix my own gear, borrow gear or tools,
and
> > call me at home if there is a last minute chance to get diving on a
remote
> > wreck that I'd been trying unsuccessfully to dive for a couple months.
If
> > selling stroke gear keeps a shop like this in business, then I say "sell
> > more stroke gear".
> > >
> > > DIR is NOT for everybody.  If a diver has made up their mind to buy a
> > Sherwood BC, then they will go out and find it.  I just hope they find
it at
> > my local DIR shop to keep the good times a rollin'
> > >
> > > ss
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, terry michael wrote:
> > >
> > > > Tankboots are necessary for pool dives. As for rationalizing selling
or
> > stocking inferior dive equipment "products" being "OK" to make a buck.
> > That's complete stroke bullshit in my opinion. I'd personally rather
find
> > another line of work then betray principles that I believe in.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "Gertje"<gert.je@wo*.nl*>
> > > > To: ScottBonis@ao*.co*, jimholcomb@x-*.co*,
techdiver@aquanaut.com,
> > cavers@ca*.co*, quest@gu*.co*
> > > > Date: Fri Nov 09 03:19:59 PST 2001
> > > > Subject: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and SS to Merge
> > > >
> > > > >Scott,
> > > > >
> > > > >Never been at Brownies, have you?
> > > > >[they even sell tankboots!!!!!!!! ;-) ]
> > > > >If there is ONE shop that's supposed to DIR, it's them. Two
> > GUE-instructors
> > > > >behind the counter, several GUE courses a year given. And EVEN THEY
> > have to
> > > > >sell strokegear to keep paying the bills.
> > > > >DIR won't feed you, cashflow does!
> > > > >By selling the shit and making money out of it, they can develop
new
> > > > >DIR-gear and keep our show on the road.
> > > > >They only can ADVISE the people that come in, to DIR.
> > > > >
> > > > >If you go to a hardwarestore for a tool, and they only sell a brand
you
> > have
> > > > >never heard of, and looks 'strangely differend' from the tool you
> > learned to
> > > > >work with in class, what would YOU do? I would go to another shop
that
> > gives
> > > > >me a choice. I MIGHT buy the 'strange' looking tool, but only after
I
> > had a
> > > > >chance to listen to the salesrep. and compare.
> > > > >
> > > > >Gertjan
> > > > >[the Netherlands]
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi Jim,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am sending this message to three separate lists as your
message, to
> > > > >which I
> > > > >> am replying, was sent to these three same lists.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jim, I guess that your message explains a major portion of the
> > difference
> > > > >> between you and me.  You see I could never supply gear to anyone
that
> > I
> > > > >> thought was not the proper gear for that person to be using in
any
> > given
> > > > >> situation.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Your boast of << I sold tons of bullshit stroke gear ...
<snip>
....
> > folks
> > > > >> have got to sell stuff to pay the bills. You going to make my
house
> > > > >payment
> > > > >> while I sit on my ass and be a purist? >> , and the rest of your
> > message
> > > > >> indicating to me that you knew that what you were selling was not
> > > > >acceptable
> > > > >> gear at the time you sold it, is so repulsive that I find it hard
to
> > > > >contain
> > > > >> my disgust for your actions.  It is people like you, using the
excuse
> > that
> > > > >"I
> > > > >> need to make a living," that are a detriment to the scuba diving
> > industry
> > > > >and
> > > > >> IMHO, just possibly the cause of various scuba accidents.  "Farm
> > animal
> > > > >> stupid" is too kind for you because you knew that what you were
doing
> > was
> > > > >> wrong at the time you were doing it.  Make a living some other
way,
> > but
> > > > >not
> > > > >> by knowingly placing divers in potentially unacceptably dangerous
> > > > >> predicaments.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> To me, there is no reason to ever supply a diver with
unacceptable
> > > > >equipment
> > > > >> for him or her to use in any given situation.  Either supply
> > acceptable
> > > > >gear
> > > > >> or inform the diver that the proposed diving cannot be
accomplished
> > safely
> > > > >> with the other gear that you have presently for sale.  And then
offer
> > to
> > > > >help
> > > > >> get (special order, alternate supplier, more expensive initially
but
> > > > >second
> > > > >> hand, etc.) alternative acceptable gear to satisfy the diver's
needs.
> > > > >This
> > > > >> is known as professionalism and any other course of action is,
IMHO
> > > > >grossly
> > > > >> irresponsible if not downright criminal.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am certainly glad that your message is in the past tense <<
...
> > until a
> > > > >> couple weeks ago, I ran a dive shop in Atlanta. >>, as I'd rather
not
> > need
> > > > >to
> > > > >> think about your still supplying unacceptable equipment to
divers.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And you profess to support the DIR philosophy???  Is that "use
> > acceptable
> > > > >> equipment unless that doesn't sell and then Jim Holcomb can make
a
> > little
> > > > >> more money by having someone buy unacceptable equipment"?  Just
whom
> > do
> > > > >you
> > > > >> think you're kidding?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But then, this is just one instructor's opinion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Take care and dive safe,       Scott
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Some weeks it's just not worth the effort to gnaw through the
> > restraints
> > > > >and
> > > > >> scramble up out of the pit.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In a message dated 11/7/01 7:59:18 PM, jimholcomb@x-*.co*
> > writes:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> << Well, in a fucked up kind of way, I agree. But wouldn't it
be
a
> > whole
> > > > >lot
> > > > >> more hypocritical to sell a stroke "stroke" gear.  Up until a
couple
> > weeks
> > > > >> ago, I ran a dive shop in Atlanta.  I sold tons of bullshit
stroke
> > gear to
> > > > >> folks.  If you got to sell something to somebody to pay the bills
it
> > would
> > > > >> probably be better to sell them gear oriented toward the DIR
> > philosophy as
> > > > >> opposed to some of that shit I sold.  My point being, folks have
got
> > to
> > > > >> sell stuff to pay the bills. You going to make my house payment
while
> > I
> > > > >sit
> > > > >> on my ass and be a purist? Better to sell DIR stuff to strokes
than
> > stroke
> > > > >> shit to strokes. Make any sense?????
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jim Holcomb >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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